Harry Potter Pokemon & the Occult (20 views) Subscribe   
  From:  David (DavidABrown)    5/16/2001 4:03 pm  
To:  ALL   (1 of 156)  
 
  37.1  
 
Here are some Harry Potter resources:

 

Harry Potter book reviews and articles from a Christian Perspective

Scroll down to the Articles.

 

http://www.cuttingedge.org/news/hpmain.html

 

Informative Video about Harry Potter Book Material

 

http://www.cuttingedge.org/detail.cfm?ID=87

 

Here are some resources about the topic of Seducing spirits. 


Book  Entertaining Spirits Unaware, Aprox. $15.00 
Video  Entertaining Spirits Unaware; The Occult Invasion of America 

This is information geared for teenagers and the concerned parents. Much of it deals with the Harry Potter and Pokemon type material. 

All I have is a Phone # 1-800-652-1144 







David A. Brown
Basic Christian: Forum



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Edited 8/30/01 12:31:57 PM ET by DAVIDABROWN 

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Edited 8/30/01 12:50:11 PM ET by DAVIDABROWN 
  
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  From:  Evg. Chambers (hinotes)    5/19/2001 7:31 am  
To:  David (DavidABrown)    (2 of 156)  
 
  37.2 in reply to 37.1  
 
Hi David, 
I am so glad that you are bold enough to open 
a forum such as this. 

There are so many souls lost in darkness, actually 
believing that they are serving "The True and Living God", 
but are actually being decieved by the devil. 

It is the truth that will help a person to becomd free 
from the bondage of witchcraft, and all of these other 
strang spirits that seems to be infiltrating the church. 

I hope that you will not mind if I post this info on my forum. 
Every parent needs this information. 

Be Blessed!!!





 

 
  
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  From:  David (DavidABrown)    5/19/2001 9:03 am  
To:  Evg. Chambers (hinotes)    (3 of 156)  
 
  37.3 in reply to 37.2  
 
Thank You, 
Maria 
I am Blessed beyond comprehension with Jesus & brothers and sisters like you! 

Maria is the host of the The Prayer Warriors Corner forum. Her forum is listed in the Basic Christian: Friends, pull down menu near the top of this screen. A great forum with a great purpose, Talking to God! What a privilege that the True and Living God allows us to come to Him. 

Prayer is Victory, when we Pray to Jesus the demons of Hell back off. These days are getting darker and darker for the world but Christians are walking in the Bright True Light of the Gospel of Jesus, which no man or demon can dispel. I have Full confidence in the Victory, Love and shed blood of Jesus. Amen! 

All of the files and information on this forum are for distribution. Permission/encouragement is granted to anyone who wants to take info off of this forum. There is a file How to Download Articles off this site located in the Issues folder, with some helpful ways on how to pass along information from this forum. 

God Bless you, 
Your brother in Jesus, 
David 





David A. Brown
Basic Christian: Forum




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Edited 5/19/2001 12:04:57 PM ET by DAVIDABROWN 
  
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  From:  Evg. Chambers (hinotes)    5/19/2001 7:47 pm  
To:  David (DavidABrown)    (4 of 156)  
 
  37.4 in reply to 37.3  
 
Thank you David! 
And carry on witht the work that God has anointed your hands to do!





 

 
  
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  From:  Wyild   5/29/2001 3:28 pm  
To:  Evg. Chambers (hinotes)    (5 of 156)  
 
  37.5 in reply to 37.2  
 
I'd like to post my two cents on here, with all due respect to you and your religious paths. 
First of all, I'd like to comment on the Harry Potter books. I do not feel that they are evil, or from the devil. These books encourage children to read. Kids LIKE the Harry Potter fantasy and enjoy reading about his adventures in a FICTIONAL world where magic is possible. 
I don't see how something that encourages children to read and imagine can be sinful. And I refuse to believe that any loving god would hold something like that against a child, or ANY person. 

<SARCASM> But then again, you can never be too careful... After that little girl in New York turned her piano teacher into a frog last week, who knows what kinds of crazy spells kids are throwing around... </SARCASM> 

Second of all... I would like to hear your opinion on why you feel witchcraft is so evil and wrong. I heartily disagree with that idea, but I am aware that most negative opinions on the subject are formed mainly because of ignorance... I ask you to look at the -----.com website, and learn more about a spiritual path that is based on positive growth and change, and the principle of "harming none." 



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Edited 5/29/01 10:53:10 PM ET by DAVIDABROWN 
  
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  From:  David (DavidABrown)    5/29/2001 4:38 pm  
To:  Wyild   (6 of 156)  
 
  37.6 in reply to 37.5  
 
Witchcraft as the Bible uses it is Manipulation. To learn to be a witch is to learn to be a manipulator. It is not appropriate to Manipulate/Witchcraft people. God created people to be Free and to have a free will, manipulation goes against what God intends for mankind.



David A. Brown
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  From:  Wyild   5/30/2001 5:36 am  
To:  David (DavidABrown)    (7 of 156)  
 
  37.7 in reply to 37.6  
 
In some forms of witchcraft (Voodoo, I believe, is one of them), yes, it is manipulative against other's free will, and it is very, very wrong. This is the type of witchcraft the Bible describes, and/or exaggerates. 
However, as there are many different sects and forms of Christianity, there are just as many forms of witchcraft. Most of these types, especially with the kinds that are being repopularized with the New Age movement (such as Wicca or Neopaganism) are heartily against these types of magicks. The Wiccan Rede, which is the basic principle of Wicca, directly states, "If it harms none, do what ye will." 

Witchcraft is the belief of being able to change the environment around you through cosmic forces. Basically. A witch could use this for evil, or for good. Some types of witchcraft are even against casting spells on another person, even if it is for their own good, without their permission. 

Wiccans (for example) use their ability to manipulate positive or negative forces to benefit themselves, not to harm another person. A Wiccan can perform a rite or cast a spell to give them personal strength from things like losing weight to having confidence for a job interview. 

Preaching that "WITHCRAFT IS EVIL" is biased, uninformed, and sterotypical. As a former Christian, I do not go around misinforming others that Christianity is racist, sexist, and hypocritical. I know that not all Christians, or religious sects of Christianity, believe in or practice these principles. I ask you to not condem something (especially something as meaningful as other peoples' religions) if you unaware of its principles, or what it means to the people who follow it. 
 
  
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  From:  David (DavidABrown)    5/30/2001 7:54 am  
To:  Wyild   (8 of 156)  
 
  37.8 in reply to 37.7  
 
Every Cult tries to convince people that what they do is not harmful or that it is even beneficial. All magic or magik witchcraft is manipulation and it is Evil. All manipulation involves spirit forces, Witchcraft All Witchcraft is to invoke a Demonic spirit on your behalf. There is no such thing as good or white magic and bad or black magic. Manipulation remains manipulation and it is Evil. People are created by God to have a relationship with God, not to be manipulated by people and Demons.
Witchcraft, Satanism
Pharmakeia (5331) Pharmacy medicine, drug, altered state, manipulation, magic
Old Testament, Lachash (3907) whisper, mumble, cast a spell, charmer
Verses - Deut 18:10 2Kings 9:22 2Chr 33:6 Mic 5:12Nah 3:4 
First Use: Exodus 22:18 Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live. {While living in the flesh everyone has the opportunity to repent, but once physical death, then comes eternal judgment, and God will not allow a witch to remain and live in His presence} 

1Samuel 15:23 For rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft, and stubbornness is as iniquity and idolatry.

Psalm 41:7 All that hate me whisper(whisper is a form of witchcraft, spell casting) together against me: against me they do devise my hurt.

Ecclesiastes 10:20 Curse not the king, no not in thy thought, and curse not the rich in thy bedchamber: for a bird of the air (evil demonic spirit) shall carry the voice, and that which hath wings shall tell the matter.

Galatians 5:20,21 Now the works of the flesh are manifest (revealed), which are these; Adultery (unfaithfulness), fornication (uncovered), uncleanness (unmoral), lasciviousness (in contentment), idolatry (worldly desires), witchcraft (manipulation), hatred (hostility), variance (quarrel), emulations (jealousy), wrath (anger), strife (factions), seditions (disunion), heresies (unbiblical principals), envyings (ill-will), murders (ending life), drunkenness (worldly influences), revellings (letting loose), and such like: of which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

Witchcraft is the practice and art of manipulation. This is carried out as people try in selfishness to get their way, to fulfill their various desires and whims. Witchcraft is the opposite of grace, where grace is giving someone the freedom to be themselves, witchcraft is the art of using manipulations, threats, situations, even rewards, and promises as a means for manipulation, therefore placing someone in bondage and slavery to accomplish the certain desires of the manipulator. Witchcraft is a type of a spoken curse. An oath is a spoken commitment to perform a good deed, a curse is a spoken commitment to do evil and harm.

Matthew 5:37 But let your communication be, Yea (yes), yea; Nay (no), nay; for whatsoever is more (manipulation/witchcraft) than this commeth of evil. {This does not preclude conversation, debate, discussion... it means to let other people have their own convictions, dont insist on changing peoples minds}

Excerpt from the Book
Basic Christian: Theology
By David A. Brown






David A. Brown
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  From:  Wyild   5/30/2001 3:03 pm  
To:  David (DavidABrown)    (9 of 156)  
 
  37.9 in reply to 37.8  
 
How can you be so close-minded!? "All magic or magik witchcraft is manipulation and it is Evil." This is utterly, completely false. Where have you gotten this opinion from? Have you explored the basis of magick-related religions? Have you educated yourself at all on the subject, from another point of view other than, "I'm told it's evil, so IT'S EVIL!" Can you open up your mind that much, and stop looking for a scapegoat to blame the evil in the world upon? I will say that the demons and evil that I know, come from intolerence, disrespect, and ignorance. Which seems to be exactly what you are displaying. 
Trust me, as a Wiccan and as someone who knows and understands other people's personal magick, I/they have never, ever once invoked a demon, nor have we ever wanted to. And I do believe a witch his/herself would know more about the subject of what they do than somebody else who glady shuts their mind to any other possibilities. Because, when I directly stated, and even cited specific examples of most witches following the code of HARMING NONE (which means not manipulating anybody, for any reason whatsoever), you completely disregarded that, and stuck to your own uninformed idea that -all- withces are manipulators. Why? 

~~~Witchcraft, Satanism 
Pharmakeia (5331) Pharmacy medicine, drug, altered state, manipulation, magic 
Old Testament, Lachash (3907) whisper, mumble, cast a spell, charmer 
Verses - Deut 18:10 2Kings 9:22 2Chr 33:6 Mic 5:12Nah 3:4 
First Use: Exodus 22:18 Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live. {While living in the flesh everyone has the opportunity to repent, but once physical death, then comes eternal judgment, and God will not allow a witch to remain and live in His presence}~~~ 

I believe that passage from the Bible could have originially be intended for witches who used their powers against others. And right now, I do feel that you (as a group, whole, whatever) have definately taken that a bit too far. And really, if that's the case... I've been living along just fine... Your God is supposedly everywhere, isn't he...? So I guess I'll just wait for him to come and stike me down, then... 

~~~1Samuel 15:23 For rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft, and stubbornness is as iniquity and idolatry.~~~ 

Again, I believe that this was orinigally intended against manipulative witches (not the kind that just go around praying to our goddesses, not hurting anybody...). And again, the ideas against ALL witchcraft have been taken way too far. Not to mention any names, but you do seem a bit insistant, if not downright stubborn, in remaining close minded about the fact that not all witches are bad! 

~~~Psalm 41:7 All that hate me whisper(whisper is a form of witchcraft, spell casting) together against me: against me they do devise my hurt.~~~ 

I do believe this passage is intended against gossipers. People who gossip are spreading negative enrgies around as well, witch or no. These forces, that anybody could control, are everywhere. Those who believe in and call themselves witches feel that they understand these forces better than most. 

Once again, witchcraft is not manipulation. It could be, but not all of it is. Think of the evil as the person who does -manipulate others- with these forces. But please understand that most witches as a whole are completely against this practice. It's not the witch his/herself that is evil, it's the -PERSON- WHO MISUSES their power FOR EVIL, that is 'evil'. There are Christian people who live in my very own town that are active racists in the KKK. But, I do not believe that Christians (as a whole) are evil. Christians who are in the KKK might be, but not all Christians. Witches who are others are bad, but not all witches are. It's the same concept. 

Again, not all witchract is the practice of manipulation. I do not see a problem with trying to change the forces around you, and only you, for the better. Why would that be bad? Because it's 'selfish'? No, it is human. If you have the power to better things, do so. Wiccans do not believe our loving deities would want us to suffer, for the sake of 'grace'. Please tell me why you think personally suffering is so graceful. We/Wiccans do not take away anybody's freedom to be themselves, so don't accuse us of it. 

~~~Matthew 5:37 But let your communication be, Yea (yes), yea; Nay (no), nay; for whatsoever is more (manipulation/witchcraft) than this commeth of evil. {This does not preclude conversation, debate, discussion... it means to let other people have their own convictions, don t insist on changing peoples minds}~~~ 

I see your own words inserted here, and in other passages, many times. Most of the time you're clarifying a word's meaning, which is thoughtful, but it's also manipulative. 

You're manipulating the exact words of a Bible passage, and putting in what you want. Reading over that passage without the other words in there, it states: 

Matthew 5:37 "But let your communication be, Yea, yea; Nay, nay; for whatsoever is more than this commeth of evil." 

I find this vary vague and confusing, but I see no reference in it to witchcraft. But because you 'thoughtfully' put your own phrasing in there, it manipulated the meaning into being something about witchraft. I could add my own twist to the passage, and make it about basically anything... Telecommunicates was the first thing that hit me. 

But honestly, I'm finding some hypocrisy in your replies. Then again, they're all from the Bible, which has been altered many times from translations and being passed down and copied by people, any of whom could have and probably have changed parts along the way... Have you met a witch, personally? Or watched a Wiccan rite? Experienced any of what you're dealing against? Or do you just sit back and read your Bible, reamining ignorant of any ideas outside of it? You're narrowing your mental and spiritual picture down to a single book. Open up your eyes, and look with your heart at something. A witch could be the kindest person you'll ever meet... But by not experiencing any of that, you'll never know, and go on believing lies and misunderstandings. 

But, I'm not here to debate all of this with you... No. I respect your belief in Christianity, but I do not respect anybody who would be actively against a spiritual path in which they know nothing about. 

What I'm here for is to ask all of you, out of the goodness of your hearts, to open up your minds and try to understand a bit more about another religion. The belief in witchraft, and other related spiritual paths, are very diverse, it's true. But do not sterotype all witches as evil. We're not evil. As simple as that. 

For information ABOUT witchcraft, I ask you to read this website. It will not try and convert you, or anything else, but it might help you understand us better, and it's purely informative. 

http://www.---.com 



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Edited 5/30/01 6:12:53 PM ET by DAVIDABROWN 
  
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  From:  David (DavidABrown)    5/30/2001 3:14 pm  
To:  Wyild   (10 of 156)  
 
  37.10 in reply to 37.9  
 
People are being deceived by Satan and are selling out to Satan. This sellout of a persons soul for Eternity is a sellout that makes the purchase of Manhattan Island for a handful of beads look like a bargain. At least the Indians received beads and buttons for what they sold. 
We cannot take our eyes off of the Eternal Perspective. Everything is not being carried out in the here and now. There is another realm the spirit realm and there is another age, the coming age of Jesus and His righteous reign on earth. 





David A. Brown
Basic Christian: Forum
 
  
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  From:  Wyild   5/30/2001 3:26 pm  
To:  David (DavidABrown)    (11 of 156)  
 
  37.11 in reply to 37.10  
 
Really, David, I challange you to let people read this post, and to not censor http://www.---.com. Why you would censor that is beyond me, unless you really do want to keep deceiving people with your damned Bible quotes and hiding what really is believed by witches, and what really is the truth from them. 
I do not see how that reply in any way corelated to my post... But that's alright, I see how badly this (ehat I orignially hoped would be an informative, enlightening post) has degenerated. Into you making vague, ridiculous responses with 'powerful' (albeit meaningless) words such as selling out, Satan, soul, and whatever wackness you feel like throwing in here. Because of the flamboyant idiocy which has become your replies, I doubt I will be visiting this message board again... 

David, when I was reading other posts by witches everywhere who were defending our religion, I saw that you simply 'shut down' and ignored whatever they had to say. Just like, from the time in which I posted my last message, to the two seconds later when I got my reply, I know that you have not read it. So I will not bother myself, if you feel like throwing some more lies and meaningless quotes up in reply, go ahead. 



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Edited 5/30/01 6:39:27 PM ET by DAVIDABROWN 
  
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  From:  WendyJM1    5/30/2001 4:20 pm  
To:  Wyild   (12 of 156)  
 
  37.12 in reply to 37.11  
 
FROM 2CORINTHIANS 4:4-5(a): 
"BUT IF OUR GOSPEL BE HID, IT IS HID TO THEM THAT ARE LOST: IN WHOM THE GODY OF THIS WORLD (satan) HATH BLINDED THE MINDS OF THEM WHICH BELIEVE NOT, LEST THE LIGHT OF THE GLORIOUS GOSPEL OF CHRIST, WHO IS THE IMAGE OF GOD, SHOULD SHINE UNTO THEM. 

FOR WE PREACH NOT OURSELVES, BUT CHRIST JESUS THE LORD..." 

Praying for your soul 
wendy 




 
  
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  From:  Star Storm (siskama)    5/30/2001 4:53 pm  
To:  Wyild   (13 of 156)  
 
  37.13 in reply to 37.9  
 
Dear Wyld Blessed Be ... 
He keeps editing the things people say to fit his own vitriol.....He has edited you as well....He is lost to the Fundie demons like Jerry Falwell and Pat robertson and the ones who have fouled their own nests with lust and money grubbing....Bet ya dont get this without an edit or without a deleted post! :) ((((((WYLD)))))))))))))



For Spell Crafting,Incense Powders, Flying Ointment,Power and Attraction Oils, Body Nourishment,Salves and various other Herbal Products, please go to Medicine Song's Majikal Moon at address below...Thank you ! Medicine Song's Majikal Moon
VERY SENSUAL SCENTED MASSAGE and BODY OILS and Crystal Point Wands etc....

Seekers of Olde Knowledge
TO DIE FOR PERFUMES & HOME SCENTS, for Body & Soul,Please visit: THE ROWAN'S PLACE 

COMMON SCENTS !


 
 
  
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  From:  Star Storm (siskama)    5/30/2001 5:36 pm  
To:  Wyild   (14 of 156)  
 
  37.14 in reply to 37.11  
 
You are a very wise and enlightened young person and i Salute your well thought out rejoinders....Youare more than welcome at my Forum..."Seekers Of Olde Knowledge" Love and Kindness, Medicine Song



For Spell Crafting,Incense Powders, Flying Ointment,Power and Attraction Oils, Body Nourishment,Salves and various other Herbal Products, please go to Medicine Song's Majikal Moon at address below...Thank you ! Medicine Song's Majikal Moon
VERY SENSUAL SCENTED MASSAGE and BODY OILS and Crystal Point Wands etc....

Seekers of Olde Knowledge
TO DIE FOR PERFUMES & HOME SCENTS, for Body & Soul,Please visit: THE ROWAN'S PLACE 

COMMON SCENTS !


 
 
  
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  From:  jpro57    5/30/2001 10:36 pm  
To:  Wyild   (15 of 156)  
 
  37.15 in reply to 37.9  
 
Pardon my intrusion; for the record, I am a follower of Jesus Christ. It is not accurate to call David closed-minded (if i may say, Dave) for this reason: We as followers of Jesus Christ do not ourselves make the rules, they are the inspired word of God. Nor can we bend them to suit our comfort, though that's often done. When The Bible states that witchcraft is evil, well, ipso facto, how can we construe in a way that is acceptable to New Agers? David has gone to the trouble to support his positon eloquently and well. I like this quote, If you think Christians are "intolerant", wait 'til you meet God. 

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Edited 5/31/2001 1:40:45 AM ET by JPRO57 
  
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  From:  Wyild   5/31/2001 4:57 am  
To:  jpro57    (16 of 156)  
 
  37.16 in reply to 37.15  
 
Have you ever considered the idea that your Bible might be inaccurate? 
It's not directly from God, there have been millions of translations, copies, and forms reproduced over the many, many years Christianity has been in existance... But even before then, there were witches and pagans... Then some guy comes along and damns those good, innocent people to a bad place called hell. 
Being followers of a different religion, I will call you close-minded because you're only looking at other religions from your point of view. Even if you don't believe in Paganism, try to at least see it from a Pagan's point of view, or seek to understand it... Consider the idea that what if the Bible might possibly be misinterpreted? Genuinely, I believe that it sterotyped all witches as bad, when that's far from the case. Meet one yourself, and you can see how he or she might be the kindest, most good-hearted person you'll ever meet. Unless you, as a follower of Jesus, think you're too sanctimonious to explore other possibilities, which I do believe is the case. And I thought you believed pride, and stubborness were sinful? 

Oh well, I guess that just goes to show you only hear what you want to, which has been demonstrated in this forum more than once...
 
  
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  From:  David (DavidABrown)    5/31/2001 7:01 am  
To:  Wyild   (17 of 156)  
 
  37.17 in reply to 37.16  
 
The Bible is the Most Accurate Relevant document ever written. 
See the thread on Septuagint and Dead Sea Scrolls You are making a baseless accusation, with no support other than opinion. 

There are Many ancient Bibles throughout the world like the Dead Sea Scrolls, That Match the Modern Bibles. 

You Can be sure that the Bible is The Word of God and that it hasnt changed! 





David A. Brown
Basic Christian: Forum
 
  
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  From:  marciabrady (AMY385)   5/31/2001 7:12 am  
To:  Wyild   (18 of 156)  
 
  37.18 in reply to 37.16  
 
What's your link again? I want to visit the "Christian Corner" of your website. 
marcia
 
  
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  From:  David (DavidABrown)    5/31/2001 7:34 am  
To:  marciabrady (AMY385)   (19 of 156)  
 
  37.19 in reply to 37.18  
 
Hi, 
If you would like his link please request it from him via e-mail. 
This is a Christian Topic forum and I would like the Links to remain Christian in nature. 

Thank you for Respecting this request and the Christians of this forum. 

Thank You, 
David 
David A. BrownBasic Christian: Forum 



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Edited 5/31/01 10:36:26 AM ET by DAVIDABROWN 
  
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   From:  Wyild   5/31/2001 12:36 pm  
To:  David (DavidABrown)    (20 of 156)  
 
  37.20 in reply to 37.17  
 
False... The Bible is one of the -oldest- documents ever written. that dosn't mean it's one of the oldest religion, though. There had to be something right before it, no? It's also one of the most opinionated too, I believe... There's not much in the Bible that can be directly prooven as fact... Anybody can write about what -could- happen, or might happen, and call it the truth. The Cat and the Hat books, for example... Some fantasitical happenings in them, oh my yes... (Just as there is in the Bible...) But with our Dr. Seuss books- all fake. Get enough people together, though, they can say it really happened! And the sad part is, they might even start believing it. 
Yes, much of what I say is indded opinion... BUT. 
My opinion only after I looked into all the -facts-... I gather my own conclusions about things, because some books says something dosn't mean I have to believe it. 

As for basing personal ideas on opinions without fact... That's exactly why you think witches and magick are all bad, because you will not look into fact. A factual, informative page: http://www.--.com... But since obviously you must be ABOVE fact, or something jacked up like that, your forum guru's going to censor that... 

Go figure! 



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Edited 5/31/01 5:12:54 PM ET by DAVIDABROWN 
  
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From:  jpro57    5/31/2001 7:44 pm  
To:  Wyild   (21 of 156)  
 
  37.21 in reply to 37.16  
 
Thank you for your response. However, please don't jump to these conclusions about me as a person. While I disagree with yet validate your right to an opinion about my faith, that right doesn't extend to the assumptions you're making about me. The things that brought me to this point of my understanding of God may astound you, or maybe not.
I have seen these discussions deteriorate on other forum sites and I have been guilty of some of that vitriol. I've learned that these can be productive discussions when emotion and acrimony are kept to a minimum. But I have never seen anyone converted to the "other side". And I have seen a fair share of close-minded thinking from all sides.

Like yourself, most Christians posting on these forums are earnest and good people, not the cartoonish carictures so popular in our media-culture (is that an oxymoron?)
 
  
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  From:  Star Storm (siskama)    5/31/2001 7:48 pm  
To:  David (DavidABrown)    (22 of 156)  
 
  37.22 in reply to 37.17  
 
SOME of the Scrolls Mirror the Bible's Content and then again SOME WERE NEVER INCLUDED by the people who chose what the CHRISTIAN Bible would and would not say.....I tell ya Dave, I study Biblical Archaeology..... :) 


For Spell Crafting,Incense Powders, Flying Ointment,Power and Attraction Oils, Body Nourishment,Salves and various other Herbal Products, please go to Medicine Song's Majikal Moon at address below...Thank you ! Medicine Song's Majikal Moon
VERY SENSUAL SCENTED MASSAGE and BODY OILS and Crystal Point Wands etc....
Seekers of Olde Knowledge
TO DIE FOR PERFUMES & HOME SCENTS, for Body & Soul,Please visit: THE ROWAN'S PLACE 

COMMON SCENTS !


  
 
  
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  From:  David (DavidABrown)    5/31/2001 9:01 pm  
To:  Star Storm (siskama)    (23 of 156)  
 
  37.23 in reply to 37.22  
 
I have added some links to the Dead Sea Scrolls thread. 
Feel free to post any of your objections to the books of the Bible over there. 





David A. Brown
Basic Christian: Forum




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Edited 6/1/2001 12:02:50 AM ET by DAVIDABROWN 
  
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  From:  Wyild   6/1/2001 4:58 am  
To:  jpro57    (24 of 156)  
 
  37.24 in reply to 37.21  
 
I did not comment on this board intending to offend anyone, though because of the sensitive nature of the topic, that's almost inevitable. My appologies for that much...But discussions do work two ways, I'm trying to put my own personal feelings aside. 
However, what I am trying to defend, are the beliefs of witches and pagans everywhere. They have unjustly been depicted as evil, dangerous, manipulative demons, which they indeed are not! Trust me, I should know... I am a former Christian, after researching many different religions of all types, I found that Paganism gave me an answer to many of my religous questions, and this religion felt right to me; I wasn't filled with the doubt or confusion that I felt when I was Christian. And I know many people who have felt the same way... So, there goes your conversion stories. 

Here on this forum, Pagans and witches have been portrayed as evil. Obviously, would you or anybody else actually look into some of our beliefs, or met one of us, you could see that we are not manipulative demons! I ask you and everybody with this sterotypical, WRONG opinion of us to not condem something if you do not understand it. Close-minded. 

Most witches and Pagans are good people, as are most Christians. I do not understand why Christians feel the need to slander other religions, such as this. All religions believe that they have found the 'one, true way.' But there is no such thing as a universal, correct spiritual path... And if there is, then everybody thinks they have already found it... So please show a little more tolerance to those who have beliefs different from yours.
 
  
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  From:  marciabrady (AMY385)   6/1/2001 8:07 am  
To:  David (DavidABrown)    (25 of 156)  
 
  37.25 in reply to 37.19  
 
My post was actually a feeble attempt at sarcasm. Wyild is claiming we are narrowminded. so I was hinting that I bet they don't have a Christian Corner on their website. 
Sorry.
 
  
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  From:  David (DavidABrown)    6/1/2001 8:25 am  
To:  marciabrady (AMY385) unread  (26 of 156)  
 
  37.26 in reply to 37.25  
 
Very Funny LoL :-)) 
I apologize to you! 

I misunderstood I thought you were promoting that site. 

Again I apologize! 

That is a good point. You know that there is no chance they would have my link on their site. I might go there and post some messages just to see how tolerant they are. 






David A. Brown
Basic Christian: Forum
 
  
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  From:  Star Storm (siskama)    6/1/2001 1:15 pm  
To:  marciabrady (AMY385) unread  (27 of 156)  
 
  37.27 in reply to 37.25  
 
It was SO feeb Marcia that it wasnt worth a rejoinder.....Ya OUGHT to SEE our sites!!!!

 
For Spell Crafting,Incense Powders, Flying Ointment,Power and Attraction Oils, Body Nourishment,Salves and various other Herbal Products, please go to Medicine Song's Majikal Moon at address below...Thank you ! Medicine Song's Majikal Moon
VERY SENSUAL SCENTED MASSAGE and BODY OILS and Crystal Point Wands etc....
Seekers of Olde Knowledge
TO DIE FOR PERFUMES & HOME SCENTS, for Body & Soul,Please visit: THE ROWAN'S PLACE 

COMMON SCENTS !


  
 
  
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  From:  Star Storm (siskama)    6/1/2001 1:16 pm  
To:  David (DavidABrown)    (28 of 156)  
 
  37.28 in reply to 37.26  
 
As long as you dont call names and flame people you can come to mine! :) C ya....wouldnt wanna BE ya! )O(

 
For Spell Crafting,Incense Powders, Flying Ointment,Power and Attraction Oils, Body Nourishment,Salves and various other Herbal Products, please go to Medicine Song's Majikal Moon at address below...Thank you ! Medicine Song's Majikal Moon
VERY SENSUAL SCENTED MASSAGE and BODY OILS and Crystal Point Wands etc....
Seekers of Olde Knowledge
TO DIE FOR PERFUMES & HOME SCENTS, for Body & Soul,Please visit: THE ROWAN'S PLACE 

COMMON SCENTS !


  
 
  
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  From:  Wyild   6/1/2001 7:46 pm  
To:  David (DavidABrown)    (29 of 156)  
 
  37.29 in reply to 37.26  
 
<SARCASM> Oooh, forum battles... Yay, sounds like fun... </SARCASM> 
Feel free to visit the Seekers of Olde Knowledge Forum. Might give you a first hand view into what some of 'us' -really- do believe in. 

"Native AmericanShamanic/Celtic Witch/Wiccan/Other Spiritualities,Healing Herbs,Mother Earth Care. All Alternative Lifestyles are welcomed.." 

That's how the forum is advertised. Rather broad topics, aren't there? I'd say that's -extremely- tolerent and open-minded... Wouldn't you? 

As for ----, I'm not trying to advertise it, or anything... But for people unfamiliar with our religion, I'd say that'd be the most and best informational page for them to learn a little more about it, to understand the religion. Might put a stop to the negative misconceptions about it. Ooh, can't wait to see if that'll be censored again, tho'... Probably. I can still hope, though, can't I!? So, for those wishing to learn more, I reccomend the FAQ page (frequently asked qustions) here: ---- 

So David, before you censor the address, at least take the time to look at the page, first... -.- 



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Edited 6/1/01 10:55:48 PM ET by WYILD 

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Edited 7/10/2001 9:19:46 PM ET by DAVIDABROWN 
  
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  From:  janlcc   6/1/2001 7:57 pm  
To:  Wyild   (30 of 156)  
 
  37.30 in reply to 37.5  
 
It appears that Mr. Brown is afraid that someone might actually visit the website you mentioned, since he saw fit to edit it out. Censorship of that sort is, at best, thoughtless. Obviously, you weren't plugging a porn site! Thanks for trying. 
  
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  From:  janlcc   6/1/2001 8:23 pm  
To:  Wyild   (31 of 156)  
 
  37.31 in reply to 37.24  
 
No, Wyild. Christians don't feel the need to slander other religions. Bigots feel the need to slander other religions. God made us all, and is far bigger than the petty differences of individual worship preferences. Some people need to put God in a box. It doesn't work, of course. But that is where they are most comfortable. Zero tolerance for anything outside of their Man made box. That's fine, so long as they do no harm.
The Bible, particularly the New Testament, is a concatenation of myths, memories, letters and dreams selected by a committee in, if I recall correctly (no, I wasn't there...) from my studies, the 3rd century. And a camel is a horse put together by a committee. Read the stuff they chose to leave out, and remember that their agenda was political, not religious, in nature.

I worship God, and He has always loomed large in my life, for which I am deeply grateful. He and I have no problem with my not knowing who or what Jesus really was. He is so much bigger than I am, He won't reject me because I am one small creation who takes most of what is preached by men as originating in self service. I don't trust it. I do trust God. When He doesn't like a decision I make, He firmly points me in another direction. In the case of Christianity, He has left me quite alone, which is an answer all by itself.

God bless you all, pagans and fundies and doomed readers of Harry Potter. You are His, and He loves you no matter what. We're the tiny petty ones, creating boxes to contain an Infinity of power, love, and knowledge we cannot even vaguely comprehend. God has no boundaries, and no use for or interest in petty human squabbling over worship rights. It saddens me that so many think so little of Him that they think their multitudinous modes of worship make any difference. All rivers lead to the sea. And all beliefs in God lead to God. Perhaps Jesus is A way. If so, good. We cannot have too many paths to our Creator.
 
  
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  From:  Wyild   6/1/2001 8:50 pm  
To:  janlcc   (32 of 156)  
 
  37.32 in reply to 37.31  
 
Allow me to correct/clarify myself... I don't mean that ALL Christians feel the need to slander other religions, or beliefs... Just some of them. 
Yep, when a king or somebody else changes part of the Bible for political reasons, are you saying that it has no effect on the religious meaning of it? 

I'm sincerely happy that you are satisfied by your chosen religion. In that respect, you go, honey. :) 

Personally, I worship the Lord and Lady, a god and a goddess. They will not reject me for trying to live the best life that I can, and for trying to be the best person I can be. THEY WILL NOT REJECT ME FOR READING HARRY POTTER! :D 

But... if your god theoretically loves us all, and we are all his... Why are Harry Potter fans supposedly doomed? Why do some of you feel the need to come out and convert the heathens? Why do some of you feel the need to target other religions, and condem them to your hell? Sorta... makes your god not seem very loving. 

But, back to Harry Potter now... Those of you who feel that they're evil... Well, you're missing out on a lot of really cute books, sadly enough! :/ 

Another, serious question... Have you read the Harry Potter books? If no, then how would you know they're bad? And how can you be against something, if you haven't seen it for YOURSELF? But... If yes... What exactly makes you think they're bad? And then, aren't you doomed, too!? Oh no!
 
  
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  From:  Star Storm (siskama)    6/1/2001 9:05 pm  
To:  janlcc   (33 of 156)  
 
  37.33 in reply to 37.31  
 
I very much appreciate your own tolerances and wish you the very best in life.... MS

 
For Spell Crafting,Incense Powders, Flying Ointment,Power and Attraction Oils, Body Nourishment,Salves and various other Herbal Products, please go to Medicine Song's Majikal Moon at address below...Thank you ! Medicine Song's Majikal Moon
VERY SENSUAL SCENTED MASSAGE and BODY OILS and Crystal Point Wands etc....
Seekers of Olde Knowledge
TO DIE FOR PERFUMES & HOME SCENTS, for Body & Soul,Please visit: THE ROWAN'S PLACE 

COMMON SCENTS !


  
 
  
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  From:  Star Storm (siskama)    6/1/2001 9:10 pm  
To:  Wyild   (34 of 156)  
 
  37.34 in reply to 37.29  
 
Thanks for the kind words Kiddo! :) I expected no less from such a kewel person....another site that will tell it like it is, step by step by step without EVER trying to convert anyone to ANYTHING is ----,I believe.... its wonderful with the sound up...especially the Ocean Mother page where it's ocean Waves rolling and breaking...very soothing.... very spiritual... xoxo Ms 
For Spell Crafting,Incense Powders, Flying Ointment,Power and Attraction Oils, Body Nourishment,Salves and various other Herbal Products, please go to Medicine Song's Majikal Moon at address below...Thank you ! 
Medicine Song's Majikal Moon 

VERY SENSUAL SCENTED MASSAGE and BODY OILS and Crystal Point Wands etc.... 

Seekers of Olde Knowledge 

TO DIE FOR PERFUMES & HOME SCENTS, 
for Body & Soul,Please visit: THE ROWAN'S PLACE 

COMMON SCENTS ! 






--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Edited 7/10/2001 9:21:22 PM ET by DAVIDABROWN 
  
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  From:  Wyild   6/1/2001 9:24 pm  
To:  Star Storm (siskama)    (35 of 156)  
 
  37.35 in reply to 37.34  
 
Yup yup! Thanks! :D 
Totally AWESOME site there, -love- the music there! Thanks for the link! :D 

 
  
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  From:  janlcc   6/1/2001 9:34 pm  
To:  Wyild   (36 of 156)  
 
  37.36 in reply to 37.32  
 
Seems I'm communicating badly tonight, Wyild!
The Bible (the New Testament) is of man, an attempt to put God in a box and to appease the powers that were at the time. It's religious and political both. But is it truth? Ah, I'm not going there. If it goes to a person's heart and causes that person to live a Godly life, who cares if it's true?

I didn't take your statement as referring to all Christians. I meant that slander comes from bigots. No religious denomination has a lock on that market.

I've read all the Harry Potter books (when I could wrest them from my son, who never used to read -- and that was not until he had read each of them 4 times!). Loved them, can't wait for the next one to come out.

Appropos of nothing, I am not a Christian. I'm an unabashed worshipper of God, happily unlabled and nondenominated. 8)
 
  
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  From:  Star Storm (siskama)    6/1/2001 10:33 pm  
To:  janlcc   (37 of 156)  
 
  37.37 in reply to 37.36  
 
Coolio! and Thanks for reading the things your child reads....It sure makes for great conversations!!!! LOL :) xo MS

 
For Spell Crafting,Incense Powders, Flying Ointment,Power and Attraction Oils, Body Nourishment,Salves and various other Herbal Products, please go to Medicine Song's Majikal Moon at address below...Thank you ! Medicine Song's Majikal Moon
VERY SENSUAL SCENTED MASSAGE and BODY OILS and Crystal Point Wands etc....
Seekers of Olde Knowledge
TO DIE FOR PERFUMES & HOME SCENTS, for Body & Soul,Please visit: THE ROWAN'S PLACE 

COMMON SCENTS !


  
 
  
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  From:  Star Storm (siskama)    6/1/2001 10:37 pm  
To:  Wyild   (38 of 156)  
 
  37.38 in reply to 37.35  
 
Thats great! I knew you would enjoy it....It speaks to people on so many different levels...xoxo MS

 
For Spell Crafting,Incense Powders, Flying Ointment,Power and Attraction Oils, Body Nourishment,Salves and various other Herbal Products, please go to Medicine Song's Majikal Moon at address below...Thank you ! Medicine Song's Majikal Moon
VERY SENSUAL SCENTED MASSAGE and BODY OILS and Crystal Point Wands etc....
Seekers of Olde Knowledge
TO DIE FOR PERFUMES & HOME SCENTS, for Body & Soul,Please visit: THE ROWAN'S PLACE 

COMMON SCENTS !


  
 
  
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  From:  louderpleez1   6/3/2001 9:06 am  
To:  David (DavidABrown)    (39 of 156)  
 
  37.39 in reply to 37.1  
 
You forgot the best of the worst......."THE SMURFS" O:-} YA ALL TAKE CARE AND MAY GOD BLESS ALL OF YOUR WRETCHED SOULS.

http://headbangersue.knac.com PURE ROCK PATROL 
  
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   From:  Wyild   6/3/2001 10:26 am  
To:  janlcc   (40 of 156)  
 
  Featured Message 37.40 in reply to 37.36  
 
Oooooh, I dig ya, now. ;) 
Cool beans! :D
 
  
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From:  YBNORMAL2    6/7/2001 4:51 pm  
To:  Wyild unread  (41 of 156)  
 
  37.41 in reply to 37.32  
 
Hmmmm
You said...

Another, serious question... Have you read the Harry Potter books? If no, then how would you know they're bad? And how can you be against something, if you haven't seen it for YOURSELF? 

This topic has been on delphi for a while now I read one Harry Potter book to see for myself. Guess What? I say the books are bad and I didn't just take someones word for it.

I don't see how any Christian in their right mind would let their child read a Harry Potter book.




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  From:  M_DAuvergne   6/10/2001 5:43 pm  
To:  David (DavidABrown)    (42 of 156)  
 
  37.42 in reply to 37.1  
 
I'm so sorry to ruin your day and force you to think, but what on earth could you have against pokemon?! 
IT IS RELIGIOUSLY NEUTRAL!!!!! NEUTRAL!!!!! 
They have never, ever said anything bad about christians...oh, wait...jeezz... 

It's about the "six-pointed star" issue, yeah? So they're all jewish...even though they're japenese...boy you must be screwy in the head...http://www.***.com 

~M. D'Auvergne 



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Edited 6/10/01 8:59:20 PM ET by DAVIDABROWN 
  
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  From:  M_DAuvergne   6/10/2001 5:45 pm  
To:  Wyild unread  (43 of 156)  
 
  37.43 in reply to 37.7  
 
Actually, Christianity IS racist, sexist, and hypocritical....

Je te remercie! 
~M. D'Auvergne
 
  
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  From:  Dr_Shock   6/12/2001 2:25 am  
To:  YBNORMAL2    (44 of 156)  
 
  37.44 in reply to 37.41  
 
I can understand for personal reasons not letting your kids read Harry Potter. I always thought one of the joys of childhood was believing in faries, dragons and magic princesses. Kid's have imaginations which they unfortunately loose with age. Some strict Christians even go as far as telling their children that their imaginary friends are really demons sent by Satan. If we're going to think that way we might as well take all of Carroll's Alice books off the shelves and burn them because they premote drug abuse. And how about the OZ series? Those aren't very Christian either since they often mention "magic". Don't forget Dr. Suess. He's got all sorts of political agendas written into his children's books. 
I hate Harry Potter in every shape, form and fashion not because of the subject matter but rather because they're poorly written. If we censor our children to everything it will be the death of America. Children need to be aware but informed of the truth. Not just that something is "bad" but rather "why its bad". Personally, I don't believe in book burning of any sort because, as Hitler put it, keep the people ignorant and you keep them under heel.


-The Mad Dr. Shock 
"As lightening to the children eased with explination kind, The truth must dazzle gradually or every man be blind." - Emily Dickenson
 
  
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  From:  Bob Blaylock (Bob_Blaylock)   6/12/2001 9:54 am  
To:  Dr_Shock   (45 of 156)  
 
  37.45 in reply to 37.44  
 
DR_SHOCK wrote:
If we censor our children to everything it will be the death of America. Children need to be aware but informed of the truth. Not just that something is "bad" but rather "why its bad". Personally, I don't believe in book burning of any sort because, as [Possible Godwin's Law invocation deleted] put it, keep the people ignorant and you keep them under heel.
  Hear!  Hear!

  Truth can stand on its own, when placed up against falshood or dangerous ideas.  The only people who have any need to censor opposing viewpoints are those whose own viewpoints are shaky  who lack confidence in the truth of their positions.  With this in mind, I invite you to have a look at how our host reacted when I posted some text which I recognize as scriptural, but which he does not.  Now I ask you, between David Brown and myself, which one of us has more confidence in the truth of his convictions, such that he is more willing to put his truth up against anothers, so that both truths may be fairly and openly compared and judged, and which one of us is more prone to cower behind censorship for fear that his truth will not stand up?  Who would rather choose to keep the people ignorant in order to protect a truth that he fears will not stand up under close and fair examination?



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 To email me, remove the string .nospam from the email address which appears below.  DO NOT send me any form of advertising, chain letters, or other such garbage.  Spammers will be dealt with very harshly!

bob-blaylock.nospam@usa.net  

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  From:  Dr_Shock   6/12/2001 3:09 pm  
To:  Bob Blaylock (Bob_Blaylock)   (46 of 156)  
 
  37.46 in reply to 37.45  
 
I think I like you better. You make your arguments with philosophical logic and moral standing rather than spewing constant Bible quotes at me. The truth is the truth and, although not all truth can be discrened by the human mind, there are always logic chains which can be followed to make an educated conclusion. 


-The Mad Dr. Shock 
  
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  From:  YBNORMAL2    6/12/2001 3:44 pm  
To:  Dr_Shock   (47 of 156)  
 
  37.47 in reply to 37.44  
 
I have no problem with children having an imagination. Imaginary friends are just make believe to say that is from satan is silly imo. I like Dr. Suess I got all the book for my neice and nephews when they were small.
You said..

Children need to be aware but informed of the truth. Not just that something is "bad" but rather "why its bad".

I agree to an extent. But look at the age group this series of books is aimed at. I read one of the books called The Chamber of Secrets. It looks to be about 4th grade level. A child in elementary school does not always have a grasp of the truth.

I saw a show in cable about the Secret service. When they train them to spot counterfiet money they taught them what was good curency. They did not teach them with actual counterfiet bills.

The best way to see what is true is to study what is true not that which is false.

The Bible says witchcraft is a sin but in this book you see..

Harry finds himself in a shop with things like.. Human bones, blood stained cards and a withered hand of glory on a cushion. The school also has various ghosts including one ghost teacher and one called Nearly headless nick who died 500 years earlier when someone tried to chop off his head. He invites harry along with a large assortment of ghosts to his deathday party. They get hold of a book of spells to get a transfiguration spell to assume the identity of someoen else to spy/get info from another house. Each house has a secret magical entry. They make magic and spells look cool and fun. This book could eaily spark an interest in the occult in children. It tries to look like harmless fun but it is very serious. Children are impressionable. It makes magic and witcraft look good, cool and fun. I think it could be a springboard for more serious stuff when they get older.

The reason kids have an imagination is why Christian parents should keep kids away from these books. 




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  From:  Dr_Shock   6/12/2001 5:28 pm  
To:  YBNORMAL2    (48 of 156)  
 
  37.48 in reply to 37.47  
 
If I'm not correct, the Harry Potter series is ment for older kids around the 4th, 5th and 6th grade range. Modern children often understand more then they let on. Its the reason you've got 3rd graders smoking pot and getting pregnant. Our technologically advanced and media driven world raises children who know more about real life than any previous generation. No matter how hard one tries to keep their children from the real world, they're constantly bombarded with it on all fronts from television, radio and school. 
Not to mention that the world we live in discounts magic, the paranormal, aliens, etc. Society seems to figure that if it can't be proven scientifically it doesn't exist. This is engrained in our kids' minds the first time we tell them that they're really aren't monsteres under the bed, a boogyman in the closet or werewolves under a full moon. Most young kids aren't going to believe anything in any work of fiction. 

Most kids turn to Occultism when they're teenagers in the sake of rebellion, not because of something they saw or read. Its the reason we've got the teeny-bopper Wiccan revolution going on right now... But then again, I don't consider Wiccans to be Occultists in any way. 

What I ment to say when I said, "Children need to be aware but informed of the truth. Not just that something is 'bad' but rather 'why its bad'" was more in reference to the things they experience in everyday life. Young children are going to hear about things like the Tim McVeigh execution, Columbine and magic and the Occult. Without an explination of why they should steer clear of such things they're left confused. If you only tell them its bad with no other explination over what happened, you're just telling them to keep their hands out of the proverbial cookie jar. And, as everyone knows, when you do that you're just asking for some little rugrat to steal all you're cookies.


-The Mad Dr. Shock
 
  
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  From:  M_DAuvergne   6/15/2001 7:17 pm  
To:  Dr_Shock   (49 of 156)  
 
  37.49 in reply to 37.46  
 
Kudos, Madame Shock!

Je te remercie! 
~M. D'Auvergne
 
  
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  From:  M_DAuvergne   6/15/2001 7:40 pm  
To:  David (DavidABrown)    (50 of 156)  
 
  37.50 in reply to 37.1  
 
Hmmmmmmmmmmzzzzzzzzzz....all this talk about Harry Potter (and from VBNormal's Post I realize that some parents want to sheild their kids from violent images, but I still don't understand why one would want to sheild their kids from the Occult, I think that kids should research different religions and spiritual traditions and then experiment, but then, my moral standards are different than most...) 
Whoops, went off on a tangent, but WHY INCLUDE POKEMON?! How are they Occult in any way? Nobody in the show worships the pokemon, rather, they become companions through rigorous training and mental flexibility. 

Seriously, HOW ARE POKEMON OCCULT IN ANY WAY, SHAPE OR FORM?!Je te remercie! 

~M. D'Auvergne 

http://www.**** 



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Edited 6/16/2001 1:58:12 AM ET by DAVIDABROWN 
  
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  From:  Dr_Shock   6/16/2001 2:36 am  
To:  M_DAuvergne   (51 of 156)  
 
  37.51 in reply to 37.50  
 
I agree with you on the Pokemon thing. I just don't see how Pokemon can be evil. Pokemon, although I don't personally care for it, is nothing more than a souped up game of rock/paper/scissors. 
But... I can fully understand the Harry Potter complaints. Giving your kid books like the Potter series is a matter of personal taste and, frankly, you'd have to be lacking all your humanly avaliable mental faculties to waste your money. They are a little off beat as far as children's books go, even when compared to classic books by Seuss and Carroll. At least Pokemon is completely bloodless (unless you read the manga). 

Many things in the books are a little questionable. Causing mischef and meyhem in the name of good and whatnot. I understand that causing chaos to some degree is all part of the process of growing up but the Potter books often display outrageous things that would be harmful and illigal in the real world but are yet still applicable (dispite all the magic flying around in the stories). It could give a growing mind a lot of crazy ideas. Heck, I got a few nasty ideas from them myself although I'd end up in the slammer or asylum if I did them. On the other hand, Pokemon has none of these ideas anywhere in any of the games. In fact, Pokemon teaches good sportsmanship (when playing against others), responsibility (for not loosing any of your expensive cards or games) and money budgeting skills (for those kids who really gotta catchem all). 

The game itself, both electronic and card doesn't really teach as much as the cartoon does, however. The three main characters of the cartoon are generally nice, normal kids who try to stop injustice by the most peaceful means possible. They always try to talk things out first. The American dub is also almost the same as the Japanese version. The only difference in the two is the fact that they cut out a few episodes in the US, deeming them unapproiate for American children. One of the cut episodes deals with pokemon breeding and was chopped due to the subject manner. However, the whole breeding senario was handled in a very mature and responsible way (ie. nothing was inapproiate and it would probably recieve a PG rating if it was in a US theater). Perhaps this is why Japanese kids never have to ask "where babies come from" and maybe this is also tied into the reason why the Japanese absoultely stomp over American students in their preformance and test scores. 

One of the reasons for this: In Japan they use cartoons geared towards younger viewers (like Pokemon) to enforce the parents' and society's teachings of right and wrong. They might as well do something constructive with cartoons since, no matter what you do, kids are going to watch them. In the US, most cartoons are pointless or just plain violent. In Japan, all cartoons ment for young audioences are usually written with a psychology consultant on hand. 

Japanese anime for children is also made to help young people cope with the problems of growing up (this is the ONLY reason Sailor Moon was ever animated, by the way.) Sailor Moon, which has sadly made it to American television (I hate Sailor Moon), was originally set around the plot of a young teenage girl growing into a woman by dealing with her responsibilities to her friends and family (allbeit in an extremely abnormal way by saving the universe). 

Similarly, in Dragonball Z, a violent anime ment mostly for teenagers and adults, a young boy struggles to follow in his father's footsteps while keeping his mother happy. Through the series he deals with issues of honor, brains vs. brawn and even the death of his own father. Even though DBZ is ment for older viewers, most primetime television watching is done by the whole family at once. Parents even watch the less mature shows with their children. Unlike us Americans, the Japanese don't just plop their three year old in front of the tube and leave them there all alone until dinner. They actually watch the shows with their kids if they can. Then again, a Japanese mother will often let her 5-10 year old watch extremely violent stuff and the kid will grow up to be just another completely normal, functional member of society. Hrm... Maybe the parental involvement is the reason that, out of any industralized nation in the world, Japan has the lowest crime rate, averageing only 6 murders a year. What are we American's doing wrong when our kids can watch tamer stuff at the same age and end up going on killing sprees? 

And if you think its just animation and not real life then remember that most of what's watched on television in Japan isn't live action. The cartoons always get the higher ratings. 

(Its long again, I'm sorry. I'm just in a writing mood tonight.)


-The Mad Dr. Shock
 
  
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  From:  David (DavidABrown)    8/30/2001 9:29 am  
To:  ALL   (52 of 156)  
 
  37.52 in reply to 37.51  
 
Here are some Additional Harry Potter resources.

 

Harry Potter book reviews and articles from a Christian Perspective

Scroll down to the Articles.

 

http://www.cuttingedge.org/news/hpmain.html

 

Informative Video about Harry Potter Book Material

 

http://www.cuttingedge.org/detail.cfm?ID=87

 

 





David A. Brown
Basic Christian: Forum
 
  
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  From:  Dr_Shock   8/30/2001 2:17 pm  
To:  David (DavidABrown)    (53 of 156)  
 
  37.53 in reply to 37.52  
 
I was curious about the video, hoping that maybe, for once, someone may have actually made a connection between REAL occultism and Harry Potter, so I checked out the link. Since when were meditation, self hypnosis and EVOLUTION considered part of witchcraft? Lets see here... Meditation has been around since the dawn of humanity, hypnosis has been around since Mesmer invented it and Freud popularized it, and evolution is a scientific theory. What do any of these things have to do with occultism? Nothing. For that matter, what does WICCA (the most talked about neo-pagan movement in the video) have to do with the occult? ABSOLUTELY NOTHING. 
A brief history on Wicca and western Paganism: Gerald Gardner was a Boyscout. As a Boyscout, he went to England with his troop for winning some sort of contest. His troop leader decided it would be nice for the boys to learn some bits and pieces of Old English spirituality since they had been learning about Native American religious practices. When Gardner grew up, he took basic Native American practices and badly crossed them with European practices along with rewriting some crap he saw in an old Golden Dawn publication, making a highbred religion. Unfortunately, its a religion which is neither true nor occult. The closest the Wiccans ever get to occultism is stealing the law of Thelema and rewriting it from "Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the law. Love is the law, love under will" to "Do what thou wilt and harm none". In the beginning of the video clip, they show some Wiccans doing the watchtower ritual which is originally Jewish and includes calling the four Archangles (including Michel and Gabriel) to watch over an area. And The Wiccans say they're original and over 5000 years old! 

In short, unless its basis is over 200 years old, which the modern pagan movement's isn't, then it can hardly be considered occult or, for that matter, even legit. Then again, for the same reasons, I can say the same about religions greater then 3000 years old. 

After watching the clip of the video that was up on the net, I have one question: Since when did "occultists" refer to the internet as the "portal to transendence"? The IOT doesn't even call it that and they're the most wired organization of the occult community, beating out even the OTO, the AA and the Golden Dawn. I guess the term was started by some 14 year old Wiccan teeney-bopper. 

True occultism can't be learned from a book like any in the Harry Potter series. You can't even begin to get a good grasp of it from only reading a book. The worst it can do is spawn more posers who eventually turn back to Christianity, anyway. This is why Quaballah (which is VERY Hebrew) was mainly an oral tradition between Rabbi for over 3000 years. The high ranking officials in the Church of Rome used to be skilled in "real magic", but even then that took them YEARS to learn. Likewise, it took Druids (which, in reality, weren't priests in any way) over 30 years just to gain acceptance amongst his peers (not to mention, we know VERY little about real Druids today because most of their records didn't survive). It took Pope Honorius over 40 years to write his grimoire! You don't just wake up one day knowing how to summon demons and call the Hebrew God to defend you. 

Don't worry about the modern Pagan movement. In time, it will pass like everything does. And in the end all that will be left are the people like me, underground and keeping to ourselves as has been tradition since the dawn of civilization.


-The Mad Dr. Shock 
"We managed to survive burning times, inquisitions and persecution for the longest time.... Until the modern Pagans botched it for everyone." -An associate of Peter Carrol's
 
  
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  From:  David (DavidABrown)    8/30/2001 3:20 pm  
To:  Dr_Shock   (54 of 156)  
 
  37.54 in reply to 37.53  
 
Yes, the Pagan (Demonic) realm will pass away. It will pass when God throws it into the Lake of Fire as per the Book of Revelation.

 

Only the Kingdom of Jesus is the Eternal Kingdom and only the Kingdom of Jesus will be around for Eternity.

 

Also there is only One defense from Demons and that is the Blood of Jesus. Only when a person Accepts that there is Right and Wrong and that Jesus is Right and He is God and that in His Love for us He Died and shed His blood for us on the Cross, so that we Sinners can be united with God. It is Only in being united with God through the Blood of Jesus that one becomes safe from Demons.





David A. Brown
Basic Christian: Forum
 
  
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  From:  Dr_Shock   8/31/2001 2:14 pm  
To:  David (DavidABrown)    (55 of 156)  
 
  37.55 in reply to 37.54  
 
By definition, angels are also demons. However we've already been over that. I suppose it matters what side of the fence you sit on. 
And, if the only way to ward off demons is through Jesus then how have the Jews been doing it for over 4000 years? They don't even recognize Jesus as the messiah. 

<<<Yes, the Pagan (Demonic) realm will pass away. It will pass when God throws it into the Lake of Fire as per the Book of Revelation.>>> 

Is everything "Non-Christian" demonic to you although you have absolutely no real evidence to prove that your way is the correct way? The Bible we have today cannot be authenticated, the church in general has been the main seat for corruption since it's beginning and Christians everywhere can't even agree on "right" and "wrong". The three above reasons only conclude that a concept like God, no matter under what guise, can never be understood or even breeched by the human mind. We don't even have a working unified field theory yet! 

The book of Revelation is known to be a wonderful piece of allegory. It was never ment to be taken literally. To say that Revelation is straight truth is like saying that dragons, vampires and werewolves actually exist. I sincerely doubt a large dragon will ever rise out of anywhere, let alone the ocean. 

-The Mad Dr. Shock 



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Edited 8/31/01 5:16:49 PM ET by DR_SHOCK 
  
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  From:  David (DavidABrown)    8/31/2001 4:01 pm  
To:  Dr_Shock   (56 of 156)  
 
  37.56 in reply to 37.55  
 
The Jewish/Christian Bible is Truth, Reality, and Fact!!

 

The Bible is the Only Document to be written by Prophets concerning events Spoken and Written down prior to their happening.

 

Jesus Authenticated the Bible as God by coming as a child and dieing on the cross for us. Descriptions of the cross of Jesus are Written in the Old Testament in Psalm 22 and Isaiah 53 for two examples, both written hundreds of years before the event occurred.

 

Jesus Authenticated that He is God and that the Bible is His word Spoken by Him in advance to Prophets by His Resurrection to Life after His death on the Cross.

 

The Bible Prophecies that Jesus will in the Future, Return. And in Truth Jesus will come again and Jesus will Rule as King of the Universe and Every Knee and every tongue that has not Confessed that Jesus is God, Will Be Cast into the Lake of Fire.

 

There is Only One God (Jesus) and One Kingdom of God (Jesus) and Only One way to fallow God (Jesus).

 

Because we experience Life and Existence here on earth there has to be One Truth to Explain the Truth of our existence. The Bible Accurately explains the Sinful nature and predicament of mankind by explaining that we are in sin and rebellion against God and that we are physically separated from God. The Bible also explains that Jesus died for our sins and His Resurrection in Spiritual Life so we who choose to accept Jesus as God will Spiritually live forever with God.

 

The Bible is True and Authenticated by Prophecy, Blood, Spirit, and the Resurrection Life of Jesus and anyone who Ignores the Call of God to have a Relationship with Him in Jesus will be accountable for their own individual decision and the eternal destination of their own Soul.

 

Choosing Jesus is the Only Rational Decision any Person can make!!





David A. Brown
Basic Christian: Forum
 
  
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Message 57 of 156 was Deleted    



  From:  Mischelle (TheWebMaiden)   9/5/2001 7:05 pm  
To:  David (DavidABrown)    (58 of 156)  
 
  37.58 in reply to 37.56  
 
Wow! I never thought I'd be reading this thread so long! 
I gotta tell you, I am a Christian, and I do consider myself to be in my right mind (I'm even left-handed--hee-hee!). Our family has been enjoying the Harry Potter series, and though not classic literature, I see how many youngsters who hated to read are now reading because of being introduced to the love of reading through Harry Potter, and respect the books and author. 

My husband and I view it as fantasy fiction. Good prevails over evil in the books, and though Christ is not mentioned, Christmas is celebrated (not the Winter Solstace). Other than teachers who teach the books by sending youngsters to Wiccan Web sites (can you imagine the uproar if teachers in public schools sent class members to Christian Web sites?!?!?).....What is the harm? 

I am trying to learn...

~~~~~~~~~~ 
~Mischelle
 
  
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  From:  David (DavidABrown)    9/5/2001 9:23 pm  
To:  Mischelle (TheWebMaiden)   (59 of 156)  
 
  37.59 in reply to 37.58  
 
Hi,

 

The Harry Potter information is posted to let people know that a main theme to the books is fantasy and witchcraft which is of course religion of the Pagan nature and to encourage people to talk about the content and themes of the books

 

The books are being widely used and supported in public schools. The Harry Potter web site and other web sites are Pagan in nature.

 

Our society that will not tolerate any mention of Jesus in public schools will so willingly support a variety of religions and beliefs but just not Christianity.





David A. Brown
Basic Christian: Forum
 
  
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   From:  _OooO_ (axlton)   9/13/2001 3:13 pm  
To:  David (DavidABrown)    (60 of 156)  
 
  37.60 in reply to 37.59  
 
Hi,
I'm important because I use letters that are larger than everyone else's.
and just because the Harry Potter books are a work of FICTION. We should all behave as if it were a real religion and condemn it as though it were the most evil thing since the spork... 




"You speak of mutualy assured destruction. Heh, nice story tell it to the readers digest" 


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Edited 9/13/01 8:12:50 PM ET by DAVIDABROWN 
  
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From:  David (DavidABrown)    9/13/2001 5:38 pm  
To:  _OooO_ (axlton)   (61 of 156)  
 
  37.61 in reply to 37.60  
 
Hi,

 

I took the liberty of reducing the font size on your post, just to make it more readable.

 

I realize that my previous post had a larger than normal font size and that was a mistake I did not intend for that size of font.

 

Im interested in what you distinguish between as fact and fiction.

 

Is God Fiction?

 

Is the spirit realm fiction?

 

Is witchcraft fiction?

 

Are Deceiving spirits fiction?

 

And what is Fact.

 

However your post does resemble the Flames of an Adolescent so if you are not an adult and you have no opinion on these questions please do not feel obligated to answer this post.





David A. Brown
Basic Christian: Forum
 
  
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  From:  Skitten (skitbunny)    9/23/2001 1:37 pm  
To:  ALL   (62 of 156)  
 
  37.62 in reply to 37.61  
 
Harry Potter? I know some of you think that the book/movie is bad. I do not like Harry Potter, but it is just a stupid book. Kids are not stupid. They know it is not true. Pokemon? What have you got against a TV show about cute little animals that have cute little pokebattles and have silly little powers? they are just TV shows.......................... Do you belive every thing you see on tv or somthin? 

 See some cool places/ forums/ stuff/ My Forum Come here! Willow's Forum Or Here Watership Club Or see some pics! My Pictures My Pictures forum Come post pictures at my forum. It is new. Hop Hop Hop Hop Hop e-mail me!  
  
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  From:  Tyriel   9/24/2001 1:41 pm  
To:  David (DavidABrown)    (63 of 156)  
 
  37.63 in reply to 37.54  
 



"Yes, the Pagan (Demonic) realm will pass away. It will pass when God throws it into the Lake of Fire as per the Book of Revelation." 
Coronus: Wow. You really are a fundamentalist. "Lake of fire"? Describe it to me. Also, I don't think that that was what Madame Shock meant. I personally think that it will go away simply because modern teens think it is another "fad" instead of an actual religion. BTW, what sect of christianity are you from? Ah, what does it matter? Oh well.. 

"Only the Kingdom of Jesus is the Eternal Kingdom and only the Kingdom of Jesus will be around for Eternity." 

Coronus: (YOU banned ME!?) If something is eternal, it has been, and will be forever. The realm of Christianity as you know it has very, very litle to do with Jesus, who actually was the reincarnation of a god, but really was the result of a highter conciousness. Also, the realm of christainity hasn't been around for that long... 

"Also there is only One defense from Demons and that is the Blood of Jesus. Only when a person Accepts that there is Right and Wrong and that Jesus is Right and He is God and that in His Love for us He Died and shed His blood for us on the Cross, so that we Sinners can be united with God. It is Only in being united with God through the Blood of Jesus that one becomes safe from Demons." 

Tyriel: WRONG AGAIN! FIRST of all, YOU have NEVER seen a demon in your short, short life. You have no IDEA what eterinity IS, or WHAT IT IS LIKE. Who the HEck ARE you to proclaim that the BLOOD OF CHRIST will ward you from the demons! I'll tell you what YOU need to ward yourself from DEMONS! A BLOODY ARCHANGEL's sword that I lovingly handcrafted many thousands of years ago. I don't think that you have the SLIGHTEST idea of what you talk about at all! Christianity! All you is TALK and you're in with the religion! No blood rites, no proof needed of your belief....all you need is to think that someone rose from the dead. I swear, nothing is less impressive than necromacy...grrrr.. 



~ Burning with Desire and looking for answers, 
Yours eternally, 
Tyriel 

 
  
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  From:  Tyriel   9/24/2001 1:50 pm  
To:  David (DavidABrown)    (64 of 156)  
 
  37.64 in reply to 37.61  
 
Is God Fiction? It may be. Also, do you know what the word "Eloheim" means? You might want to look it up. Its Aremeic. I don't know if I spelled it right, tho. 

Is the spirit realm fiction? It may be as well. Depends on one's perception, because it is the main thing that you people quibble about. Since nobody can agree it is a very, very fuzzy area, so nobody can really say for sure... 


Is witchcraft fiction? I've actually seen it work. Do you know about pyrokinesis? My g/f has that gift, and can spread her fire on whatever she chooses. Tounges of fire have rested on my hand. My answer: Most of it. 


Are Deceiving spirits fiction? All of them lie. Every single one. Even angels. *Grins* 


And what is Fact? Nothing. There are no facts. One plus one doesn't even make two, mathematically... 




~ Burning with Desire and looking for answers, 
Yours eternally, 
Tyriel 

 
  
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  From:  Tyriel   9/24/2001 1:51 pm  
To:  David (DavidABrown)    (65 of 156)  
 
  37.65 in reply to 37.61  
 
I also don't see what you have against pokemon. It is not a religious show at all. 
SO WHAT IS WRONG WITH POKEMON???!! 


~ Burning with Desire and looking for answers, 
Yours eternally, 
Tyriel 
 
  
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  From:  Dave Horne (DaveHorne711)   9/28/2001 4:31 am  
To:  Tyriel unread  (66 of 156)  
 
  37.66 in reply to 37.64  
 
Tyriel, 
< Do you know about pyrokinesis? My g/f has that gift, and can spread her fire on whatever she chooses. > 

I doubt that your g/f has that 'gift'. If you and she sincerley believe that she has a power, why not have herself tested by James Randi. Do a google search on his name. His organization offers $1,000,000 to anyone who has any _provable_ powers such as the one you mentioned. 

You could offer that money to charity _if_ she really has that power. 

All the best, Dave Horne
 
  
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  From:  Fionn_Seamus   9/28/2001 11:19 am  
To:  Dave Horne (DaveHorne711)   (67 of 156)  
 
  37.67 in reply to 37.66  
 
Really? A million smackers? Wow. 
I truly believe that Tyriel will do such a thing, if he's smart and all. 

I'm new to the board here. Some freinds told me about it. I really can't believe all these left-handers. They make me ill. I hope that God has mercy on them. 

I am a Catholic, and I prefer to treat all christians justly. I have been reading some of this David's posts. He seems alright, although I do believe that he misses the point a lot. I also read some of Doctor Shocks posts, and he is definately shocking, although I beleive he beat David on a few arguments. 

Anyway, Hi. 

Hey, what do you think about Pokemon? I can't see how it is occultistic, except for the "ghost" and "psychic" pokemon. I wonder how much that guy would pay to see one of those? Just kidding. True power can only come from God, Christ, and the Holy Ghost; and of course our Holy Mother.
 
  
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  From:  Dave Horne (DaveHorne711)   9/28/2001 2:27 pm  
To:  Fionn_Seamus   (68 of 156)  
 
  37.68 in reply to 37.67  
 
Fionn, 
<Really? A million smackers? Wow.> 

Like, really wow! YOu know what I mean, like, wow! 
DH
 
  
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  From:  Fionn Seamus (Christboy121)   9/29/2001 4:24 pm  
To:  Dave Horne (DaveHorne711)   (69 of 156)  
 
  37.69 in reply to 37.68  
 
Is something wrong? Anything I can help you with? 
Bitterness and sarcasm are only tools to make yourself unhappy, and if that is your goal, it won't discourage me, for happiness is the essence of God. I was merely having fun with your post, because it sounded interesting. 

Enjoy! 

~ Fionn Seamus
 
  
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  From:  The Rebecca Review.com (A281NPSIMI1C)   10/15/2001 8:20 pm  
To:  Mischelle (TheWebMaiden)   (70 of 156)  
 
  37.70 in reply to 37.58  
 
Love your name: Webmaiden 
I am also researching the Harry Potter Books. 

If you really want to know about these books: Witchcraft Repackaged is a video you might want to watch. 

I saw a show about it and totally want to watch it. 

If you enjoy those books...you might want to read the Narnia Books by C.S. Lewis, that I completely enjoyed reading as a child. 

There are some things I could copy from that discussion and post here if you want. 

Best, 

Rebecca 




--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Edited 10/16/01 4:47:58 PM ET by A281NPSIMI1C 
  
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  From:  Mischelle (TheWebMaiden)   10/15/2001 8:43 pm  
To:  The Rebecca Review.com (A281NPSIMI1C)   (71 of 156)  
 
  37.71 in reply to 37.70  
 
Rebecca~ 
I'm just off to bed, but I wanted to let you know I appreciate your response and look forward to more discussion! 

I, too, will be ordering Witchcraft Repackaged...I also saw something on it, probably TBN or another Christian station. Also saw part of a John Hagee interview with the video's producer, Caryl Matrisciana. Here's a website with info on the video: http://www.theharrypottervideo.com 

Well, Good Night and Blessings! 

PS Not a professional WebMaiden at present, but I did enjoy it very much! Hoping the Lord will put me in a position to do more Web site work sometime soon. 



~~~~~~~~~~ 
~Mischelle
 
  
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  From:  The Rebecca Review.com (A281NPSIMI1C)   10/18/2001 4:33 am  
To:  Mischelle (TheWebMaiden)   (72 of 156)  
 
  37.72 in reply to 37.71  
 
Here is a document sent to me yesterday. It is quite interesting to read.  
- Attachments follow -
harry_potter.doc
98KB 
 
  
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From:  David (DavidABrown)    10/18/2001 8:26 am  
To:  The Rebecca Review.com (A281NPSIMI1C)    
 
    
 
Hi Rabecca,

Thank you for your excellent Article!!

Here is your Attachment Article reposted.

Do to length it is several Posts.

Thanks Again,

God Bless You,
David 

Harry Potter
Church of England vicar Brian Coleman is holding a special "Harry Potter" family service this weekend at the All Saints Church in Surrey, England ("Church to Lure Young with Harry Potter," London Sunday Times, Sept. 1, 2000). A banner featuring a serpent will be displayed. The church door will become the gateway to a magical platform at the Hogwarts school of wizardry, which is where Harry Potter was trained in occultism. Coleman will wear a wizards robe for the service. An 11-year-old boy will play the part of Harry Potter. A special Harry Potter liturgy (order of service) has been created by one of the church members. This has been posted on the Internet for other churches to use, and according to the Sunday Times, other Church of England clergy are interested in it. Coleman argued that "young folk are all very much into Harry Potter; we are using this interest." 

Using witchcraft to win people to Jesus Christ. What an hour of confusion and utter apostasy!

The Harry Potter books, which have sold tens of millions of copies worldwide in more than 30 languages, glorify witchcraft. The hero namesake of the books is a young wizard, the son of a murdered wizard and witch. His adoptive parents, who are not witches, are depicted as foolish and cruel; but he escapes to attend the Hogwarts wizards school, where he learns to cast spells, use chants and crystal balls, ride broomsticks, turn himself into an animal, and perform other occultic rituals. Textbooks at the wizard school have titles like "The Standard Book of Spells." The directors of the school are ghosts who died gruesome deaths. One is named Near Headless Nick; he was killed by being struck 45 times in the neck with a blunt axe. There is a "Sorcerers Stone" that has the power to give immortality. The world of witchcraft is depicted as exciting and desirable. Witches are intelligent and caring; whereas non-witches, called Muggles in the books, are dull and uncaring. Harry Potter and his wizard friends lie, steal, break rules, disobey authority figures, and take revenge. Harry Potter also makes and uses drug potions, including the psychedelic drug thujone, which has been banned in the United States since 1915. The wizards practice Hindu-type meditation "to clear the Inner Eye." There is swearing and violence. A three-headed dog mangles the leg of a professor; a mysterious figure drinks blood from a unicorn carcass; children are attacked and paralyzed; a dead cat is hung upside down by its tail. There are creatures called Dementors that "suck out peoples souls." There are ghosts who haunt bathroom toilets. In the second volume, a monster speaks to Harry through the walls of a castle, saying, "Come . . . come to me. . . . Let me rip you. . . . Let me tear you. . . . Let me kill you." When Harry kills the monster, its eyes are punctured and "a sudden shower of dark blood spattered the floor." The fourth volume contains a torture scene and two deaths. The final battle scene "is bloody and frightening. Voldemorts servant must exhume the bones of the Dark lords father, draw Harrys blood, and sacrifice his own hand in order to restore Voldemorts body." In the Harry Potter books, death is described as "going to bed after a very, very long day" and merely "the next great adventure." 

There is no doubt that the Harry Potter books are influencing children. Phyllis Curott, a witch interviewed by ABCNews.com, observed that the books depict wizards and witches as "positive," "friendly" and "good"; therefore, the books "might change the way people feel about us." The headmaster at a school in Raleigh, North Carolina, noted: "The throngs that line up to meet Rowling [to autograph their books] are often teeming with children clad in wizard cloaks and sporting lightning-bolt scars tattooed--temporarily--to their foreheads" (John Murray, "The Trouble with Harry"). The Pagan Federation in England has had to appoint a youth officer just to handle the flood of inquiries from Harry Potter fans. 

The female author of Harry Potter, J.K. Rowling, claims that the books are mere harmless fantasy; but the Bible solemnly condemns every form of witchcraft. Occultism is not a game; it is very real and it is rebellion against Almighty God. To fill the minds of children with such things is a great evil. Like Star Wars, the Harry Potter books promote the unscriptural myth that there is both good and evil wizardry. The Bible mentions wizards 11 times, and in every case it is a strong warning. Consider some examples: 

 

"Regard not them that have familiar spirits, neither seek after wizards, to be defiled by them: I am the LORD your God" (Lev. 19:31). 

 

"And the soul that turneth after such as have familiar spirits, and after wizards, to go a whoring after them, I will even set my face against that soul, and will cut him off from among his people" (Lev. 20:6).

 

"A man also or woman that hath a familiar spirit, or that is a wizard, shall surely be put to death: they shall stone them with stones: their blood shall be upon them" (Lev. 20:27).

 

"There shall not be found among you any one that maketh his son or his daughter to pass through the fire, or that useth divination, or an observer of times, or an enchanter, or a witch, Or a charmer, or a consulter with familiar spirits, or a wizard, or a necromancer. For all that do these things are an abomination unto the LORD: and because of these abominations the LORD thy God doth drive them out from before thee" (Deut. 18:10-12). 

 

"And when they shall say unto you, Seek unto them that have familiar spirits, and unto wizards that peep, and that mutter: should not a people seek unto their God? for the living to the dead? To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them" (Isaiah 8:19,20). 

 

"And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them" (Ephesians 5:11).

 

Since the 1960s, Western society has been overrun with occultism. The Beatles and other rock stars led the way in popularizing demonic and idolatrous eastern religions. Movies like Star Wars have glorified occultic themes. Many current television shows focus on this, including Sabrina, the Teenage Witch; Charmed; and Buffy the Vampire Slayer.

The Bible warns that in the last days men will worship devils and be involved with sorcery. In fact, during the Tribulation, even during the terrible judgments which God will pour out upon this sinful world, men will refuse to repent of these very sins. "And the rest of the men which were not killed by these plagues yet repented not of the works of their hands, that they should not WORSHIP DEVILS, and idols of gold, and silver, and brass, and stone, and of wood: which neither can see, nor hear, nor walk: Neither repented they of their murders, nor of THEIR SORCERIES, nor of their fornication, nor of their thefts" (Revelation 9:20,21). 

 

It is frightful to think of all of the Christian parents who allow their children to be involved with the wicked things of the world like Harry Potter. One of the reasons for this is that so many pastors are either too ill-informed or too cowardly to warn their people of these things. Join us in praying for more pastors who are wise enough to discern the difference between good and evil and who love people enough and fear God enough to warn of evil even if their hearers do not want to be warned.

September 2, 2000 (David W. Cloud, Fundamental Baptist Information Service, P.O. Box 610368, Port Huron, MI 48061-0368, fbns@wayoflife.org)

 





David A. Brown
Basic Christian: Forum
 
From:  David (DavidABrown)    10/18/2001 8:30 am  
To:  The Rebecca Review.com (A281NPSIMI1C)    
 
    
 
(Part 2)

TABLE OF CONTENTS

PART I: HARRY POTTER AND THE SORCERER'S STONE: WHY IT IS TRULY SATANIC (Pt.1)

A. INTRODUCTION

B. WHO ARE THE REAL CHRISTIAN SIMPLETONS?

C. HARRY POTTER TEACHES CHILDREN TO BE REBELLIOUS

D. HARRY POTTER TEACHES CHILDREN TO BE CRUDE

E. HARRY POTTER TEACHES CHILDREN TO USE PROFANITY AND BLASPHEME GOD

F. HARRY POTTER MOCKS SEPARATED, FUNDAMENTAL CHRISTIANS

G. HARRY POTTER TEACHES THAT "MODERATE" DRINKING IS OKAY

H. HARRY POTTER TEACHES CHILDREN THAT THERE IS GOOD WITCHCRAFT

 

PART II:

I. HARRY POTTER REFERS TO REAL WITCHES AND REAL WITCHCRAFT IN THE MIDST OF ITS FICTION

J. HARRY POTTER GLORIFIES SERPENTS AND DRAGONS LIKE TRUE OCCULTISTS

K. HARRY POTTER ENTICES CHILDREN TO STUDY REAL OCCULT BOOKS

L. HARRY POTTER HAS HELPED MAINSTREAM THE OCCULT REVIVAL

 

==========================================================

 

HARRY POTTER AND THE SORCERER'S STONE: WHY IT IS TRULY SATANIC

(Pt.1)

 

INTRODUCTION

 

"The Initiates in a particular [occult] science, having been instructed by fables, enigmas, ALLEGORIES, and hieroglyphics, wrote mysteriously whenever in their works they touched the subject of the Mysteries, and continued to CONCEAL [occult] science under the veil of FICTIONS...When the destruction by Cambyses of many cities, and the ruin of nearly all Egypt...dispersed most of the Priests into Greece and elsewhere, they bore with them their [occult] sciences, which they continued to teach enigmatically, that is to say, ever enveloped in the obscurities of FABLES and hieroglyphics; to the end that the vulgar herd, seeing, might see nothing..." (Albert Pike, "Morals and Dogma", p.365)

 

There it is as plain as it can be written. Occultists use fiction to separate the true seekers from the common "herd". This article (and particularly the second part next week) will prove that Harry Potter is truly Satanic. Although I have tried to make sure there is nothing crude or profane in this article, it is written and intended for adults only. This is an in-depth review (primarily) of J.K. Rowling's first Potter book, "Harry Potter and the Sorcerer's Stone" (1999) from a Biblical perspective. It is divided into sections. Christians reading and defending Harry Potter books (Chuck Colson, etc.) are part of the "falling  away" predicted for these last days (2 Thess.2:3, 1 Tim.4:1). This article will explain why. I pray many will be convinced and turn from this deception. Part two of this study will deal with the deep occult themes and symbolism used by Rowling that is meant for the 'seekers" and "initiates". Rowling is more than familiar with Balvatsky, Pike and Crowley. Her Potter books are abundantly laced with pure occultism. Rowling is not a naive author who simply wrote a best-selling fantasy. She is part of a larger movement that is helping to bring in the New Age "messiah".

 

WHO ARE THE REAL CHRISTIAN SIMPLETONS?

Not too long ago an article from "The Onion" flooded e-mail mailboxes. The story contained a subtle mixture of truth and error. It used false numbers and false quotes to turn Rowling into an outright Satanist. Some Christians (who think they have Biblical discernment because they regularly visit the various web sites that expose "urban legends") have pointed out that the article is a hoax. Most Christians have seen only a portion of the article. It was very blasphemous (to the point of absurdity, using pornographic language). The people that started the "urban legend" did it to mock Christians, knowing that they already viewed Harry Potter as dangerous. The Kingdom Alert Update never quoted any of this article since there were no true sources that could be verified. Nevertheless, I have written many reports in the past that prove that the main thesis of the spoof is actually correct. So who are the real simpletons? I do not think they are the ones who believed that this urban legend was true. These simply need to be more careful. The people that have the biggest problem are the ones that were TRICKED by this propaganda. The Devil raises up the Harry Potter books to take kids one more step toward accepting the future Antichrist. The first Potter book contains its own defense against the fundamentalist outcry. It paints fundamentalists as stupid and paranoid. Therefore, anyone who reads the book and enjoys it is brainwashed into seeing the fundamentalist attack on the book as an exercise in "absurdity". But then, not satisfied with this one defense, an e-mail "suddenly" makes its appearance in thousands of computers WORLDWIDE which claims that Rowling practically admits (openly) that she is a Satanist. [This would not have been financially or strategically prudent. It is witchcraft that the Devil is making acceptable in the mainstream at the moment - not raw Satanism.]  Many Christians then took the bait and spread it around further. Then, when the truth comes out that it is a myth, the Christians who were before UNDECIDED now jump to the other side and declare that they are smart for not being deceived. But in reality THIS final result was the main goal of the deception! Wake up Christians! The fact that the e-mail was fake does not mean Harry Potter is not Satanic and dangerous. This article will prove that Harry Potter is Wiccan, Satanic (i.e. A. Crowley), and Masonic (therefore New Age in general) PROPAGANDA! We will begin this week with some, basic practical problems to prove this assertion.

 

 

HARRY POTTER TEACHES CHILDREN TO BE REBELLIOUS

The Bible predicts that children will be disobedient in the last days: 

2 Timothy 3:1,2 This know also, that in the LAST DAYS perilous times shall come. For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, DISOBEDIENT TO PARENTS, unthankful, unholy,

The Bible says that rebellion can be as bad as witchcraft itself:

1 Samuel 15:23 For rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft...

 

Rowling's first Potter book is marketed to children age 8-13. The type and graphics are designed for this age group. When confronted with the violence, rebellion, etc. in the book, Rowling answers that she did not write the book for children! No one ever asks her anymore questions. A child cannot read "Harry Potter and the Sorcerer's Stone" (from this point on referred to as "HPSS") without identifying with Harry Potter as a hero or role model. There is also a female character (a young witch named

Hermione Granger) in the story so young girls can find additional identification. But putting aside the sorcery and witchcraft for a moment, are Harry Potter and Hermione Granger good role models? Are there good role models ANYWHERE in the book? The answer is absolutely no. Children (even the good characters) lie, call names, hate, go on adventures in bathrobes in mixed company at 11 years old, steal (p.227), and break rules in general.

 

Before providing some examples, a brief summary of the story line might be helpful. Harry Potter's parents were famous witches. They are killed by a bad (dark) wizard. Yet, the murderous spell doesn't work against the infant Potter. All it does is leave a lightning shaped cut in his forehead. The orphan Potter is laid by witches at the doorstep of his aunt and uncle (the Durselys) to be raised. This couple opposes witchcraft as dangerous, and for that reason they have separated from Potter's family.

Having no real choice, they raise the child. Rowling paints this couple in the worst light imaginable. The first part of the book deals with Harry's life, growing up in this home. When Harry is eleven, a wizard rescues him to go to a famous school for witches and wizards. The rest of the book consists of Harry's adventures at this school.

 

The first authority figures that Harry has are the Durselys. Harry has not known any other father other than his uncle Vernon Dursely. When a letter arrives from the school of witchcraft, Uncle Vernon refuses to let Harry have the letter. Notice how Harry responds:

"'I want to read that letter,' said Harry furiously, 'as it's mine.' 'Get out, both of you,' croaked Uncle Vernon... Harry didn't move. 'I WANT MY LETTER!' he shouted." (p.35)

 

Later, when Harry is in the school, he responds to an exciting circumstance by stating an obscenity: "What the ----?" (p.115)

 

There is indeed a blank after the "the" in the book. But what else could follow such words but an obscenity? This is a common phrase for street obscenities. Do we find the role models in older fictional works for children expressing such language and rebellion? Certainly not.

 

The next authority figures for Harry and the other children are school teachers. Harry and his friends are irritated that Hermione Granger follows rules and doesn't lie to authorities. But later, she learns to disobey authority and lie, and by doing so, she then wins acceptance!:

 

"Hermione Granger, telling a downright lie to a teacher?...Hermione had become a bit more relaxed about breaking rules since Harry and Ron had saved her...and she was much nicer for it...She had conjured them up a bright blue fire...Harry, Ron, and Hermione moved closer together to block the fire from view; they were sure it wouldn't be allowed." (pp.177, 181)

 

The book is filled with mean, hateful statements, name calling, etc. that no obedient Christian parent would ever allow in his or her children: "'Wonder what's wrong with his [the teacher's] leg?' 'Dunno, but I hope it's really hurting him, said Ron bitterly." (p.182)

"I hate them both,' said Harry, 'Malfoy and Snape." (p.196)

"Piers, Dennis, Malcolm, and Gordon were all big and stupid..." (p.31)

And the hatred is not confined to the little boys. Hermione certainly learns how to be a "little witch":

"Oh, shut up,' said Hermione,..." (p. 269)

She later lies to a school mate and inflicts a paralyzing horror upon him - just because he is "in the way":

 

"You're going out again,' he said. 'No, no, no,' said Hermione. 'No we're not. Why don't you go to bed, Neville?' [lying]...She raised her wand. 'Petrificus Totalus!' she cried, pointing it at Neville. Neville's arms snapped to his sides. His legs sprang together. His whole body rigid, he swayed where he stood and then fell flat on his face, stiff as a board....Neville's jaws were jammed together so he couldn't speak. Only his eyes were moving looking at them in horror." (p.272)

 

That's pretty sick stuff. I would not have even printed the trash if I didn't think some adult Christians needed to see what they are allowing their children to read. Is it okay for a little girl to disobey teachers, lie and then bring "horror" upon a school mate? Yet, I suppose that most of the parents in the world who let their children read Rowling's Harry Potter are themselves reading Stephen King.

 

Harry Potter ends the book with a plan to continue to defy, not only his non-magic step-parents, but also his school officials: "They don't know we're not supposed to use magic at home. I'm going to have a lot of fun with Dudley this summer..." (p.309)





David A. Brown
Basic Christian: Forum
 
From:  David (DavidABrown)    10/18/2001 8:34 am  
To:  The Rebecca Review.com (A281NPSIMI1C)    
 
    
 
 

HARRY POTTER TEACHES CHILDREN TO BE CRUDE

The new philosophy in Hollywood, Disney, etc. is to lace movies with crude humor that worldly children would respond to, while also inserting so-called "adult" humor. Under this new system, there is a larger market. This is clearly the approach that Rowling has used for her book. The book contains references to vomit and other crude bodily substances in an attempt to be humorous to young children:

"I was unfortunate in my youth to come across a vomit flavored one..." (p.300) [see also pp.104, 177]

 

How then, can it be true that the book is not designed for children?

 

HARRY POTTER TEACHES CHILDREN TO USE PROFANITY AND BLASPHEME GOD

We have already mentioned Harry Potter's implied profanity (p.115). But the book (HPSS) goes further and actually contains the Biblical word "damn" used as a cuss word (p.41)! There are also at least five places where the Lord or Heaven (as the place of His throne) are used in vain, as a type of exclamation or profanity. Since I consider this to be blasphemy, I will only provide the page numbers where these expressions occur (pp.12, 23, 69,152, 290). Some of these statements are from witches and wizards.  Prayer (communion with the Holy God) is also used in vain: 

"They edged toward the open door, mouths dry, praying the troll wasn't about to come out of it." (p.174)

 

Do witches and wizards pray? Why do they appeal to the "good Lord" (while serving whiskey from a bar)? Of course, witches and wizards worship the horned god and the goddess. Perhaps these references are meant to apply to them.

 

On the other hand, they might also be used to make people with Christian backgrounds, who are feeling a bit uneasy at all the witchcraft, feel at home. (However, if blasphemy makes you feel at home, you have some problems.) There are also references in the book to witches celebrating Christmas and Easter (pp.196, 229). The early Goths celebrated the Yule feast (which afterward became Christmas) to honor all the new occult "initiates". These holidays (stripped from any Christian references) have a large history in pagan religion (i.e. witchcraft, etc.). Herod (as a

pagan) makes reference to Easter (Acts 12:4). My purpose is not to enter into the debate of whether or not Christians should honor the birth or resurrection of our Saviour on these days. It is to warn naive Christians not to be deceived into thinking that this Wiccan propaganda (HPSS) is somehow benign because it uses references to theLord, Heaven, Christmas and Easter! An Episcopalian web site (www.episcopalchurch.org) contains a debate between mothers on the subject of Harry Potter. A little girl wrote in and her response summed up the problem with these books in a nutshell:

 

"This is my view on how Harry Potter affects my faith in God: It doesn't. If anything, it has made me closer to God with a better understanding about different peoples around the world. The reasons are as follows: One, in the Harry Potter books they celebrate both Christmas and Easter; two, never in reading all four of the books four times has there been any mention of Satanism. Yes there is witchcraft, but it is mostly good witchcraft...As an Episcopalian, I think that Harry Potter has made me more aware of a superior power that watches us..." (T.G., Grade 8, Madison, Wis.)

 

This dear little girl (like many good Baptist kids) is being deceived into thinking that there is a "good witchcraft", and that this is okay as along as it is not Satanism! Rowling's references to Christmas presents, Christmas trees, Easter vacation, prayer, the Lord's name and throne, etc. has deceived people into thinking the book is somehow "wholesome". This makes the book all the more Satanic:

 

2 Corinthians 11:14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.

 



David A. Brown
Basic Christian: Forum
 
From:  David (DavidABrown)    10/18/2001 8:36 am  
To:  The Rebecca Review.com (A281NPSIMI1C)    
 
    
 
HARRY POTTER MOCKS SEPARATED, FUNDAMENTAL CHRISTIANS

In the book, Potter's aunt and uncle (the Durselys) are belittled as "Muggles". "Muggle" is partly defined later in the book:

"'A Muggle,' said Hagrid, 'it's what we call nonmagic folk like them.'" (p.53)

 

Yet, it is clear that by "Muggle" Rowling does not just mean people who cannot exercise magic. She means anyone who believes it is dangerous or morally wrong to practice magic! People who think this is all fantasy need to splash some cold water on their faces. In the world today there ARE people who call themselves witches and wizards (i.e. Wiccans, etc.). And there are people who think they are morally wrong (fundamental Christians)! So we are clearly NOT in the realm of fantasy at all. we are

in the realm of PROPAGANDA aimed at CHILDREN!

 

Children will go to public school and learn about nature religion, paganism, eastern religion and Wicca. This will appear EXCITING. They will then go home and be warned by parents (an older generation) who will not approve of these things (these parents are shocked because they thought public school would be the same as when they attended). These parents will be seen as "Muggles" to children indoctrinated with Harry Potter at school. This is Marilyn Ferguson's dream come true ("The Aquarian Conspiracy: Personal and Social Transformation in Our Time", 1976). Notice some quotes from HPSS in regard to Muggles:

 

"...in fact, Mrs. Dursley pretended she did not have a sister, because her sister and her goof-for-nothing husband were as unDursleyish as it was possible to be...The Durselys knew that the Potters had a small son, too...This boy was another good reason for keeping the Potters away; they didn't want Dudley mixing with a child like that." (p.2)

 

"Well, I just thought...maybe...it was something to do with...you know...her crowd." (p.7)

 

"...there seemed to be a lot of strangely dressed people about. People in cloaks. Mr. Dursely couldn't bear people who dressed in funny clothes - the getups you saw on young people! He supposed this was some stupid new fashion...his eyes fell on a huddle of these weirdos standing quite close by...these people were obviously collecting for something..." (p.3)

 

"While he drove, Uncle Vernon complained to Aunt Petunia...This morning, it was motorcycles...'roaring along like maniacs, the young hoodlums,' he said, as a motorcycle overtook them." (p.25) 

 

"I'm not having one in the house, Petunia! Didn't we swear when we took him in we'd stamp out that dangerous nonsense?" (p.36)

 

"I was the only one who saw her for what she really was - a freak! But for my mother and father...they were proud of having a witch in the family!'" (p.53)

 

Fundamental Christians are commanded to practice separation (2 Cor.6:14-18). They teach their children not to mix with children who practice witchcraft, dress in black trench coats (or gowns!), listen to bad music, etc. Fundamental Christians are opposed to crossdressing, perversion, and immodest clothing (1 Tim.2:9). We think that Wiccans are involved in a Satanic religion and that "Moonies" are in a cult and that they need to hear the true Gospel of Jesus Christ. Is it not obvious that Rowling is calling fundamentalists "Muggles"? "Muggles" are shown to be unhappy people:

 

"Even Muggles like yourself should be celebrating, this happy, happy day!" (p.5)

 

Anyone who has been street witnessing to young adults practicing Wicca, etc. knows that they believe fundamental Christians are unhappy people. Rowling goes further and calls us "stupid" for believing witchcraft is of the Devil. She paints the Muggles as stupid, overweight gluttons, afraid of what they do not understand:

 

"Well, they're not completely stupid. They were bound to notice something." (p. 10)

 

"Meant ter turn him into a pig, but I suppose he was so much like a pig anyway there wasn't much left ter do." (p.59)

 

Her book attempts to make children hate the Muggles. If you are still not convinced that Rowling is writing against fundamental Christians, notice the following quotes:

 

"Uncle Vernon looked over the top of his newspaper and shouted that Harry needed a haircut..." (p.20)

 

"Once, Aunt Petunia, tired of Harry coming back from the barbers looking as though he hadn't been at all, had taken a pair of kitchen scissors and cut his hair so short he was almost bald except for his bangs..." (p.24)

 

"'You could just leave me here,' Harry put in hopefully (he'd be able to watch what he wanted on television for a change..." (p.23)

 

"Mrs. Figg wasn't as bad as usual...She let Harry watch television and gave him a bit of chocolate cake..." (p.32)

 

Now I ask: what group of people thinks witchcraft is dangerous and evil, separates from witches, does not allow their children to play with witches, is opposed to many new fashions in dress, teaches that growing boys and men should have short hair, and opposes certain television programs? (Actually some of us are opposed to ALL worldly TV in general, and think we would not have to write articles such as this if more Christians threw the TV and worldly movies away for good.) There is only ONE significant group of people such as this. Therefore, Muggles represent born-again, fundamental Christians. The world always teaches that fundamentalists are hypocrites.

 

And even if someone is stubborn or naive enough to think that Rowling does not have fundamentalists in mind, what will children learn from this fiction? Will they not learn to despise anyone who resists the New Age movement?

 

Rowling has laced her book with its own defenses. Knowing that she would be reproved by fundamentalists for taking her fiction "666 steps" deeper into the occult than C.S. Lewis or Tolkien, she created the Muggles to mock their response. Notice that Muggles are REALLY opposed to imagination:

 

"He was rattled...hoping he was imagining things, which he had never hoped before, because he didn't approve of imagination." (p.5)

 

Therefore Rowling continues to pretend that her book is not Wiccan, New Age propaganda, and that she did not write for children. She pretends it is only fiction and that anyone opposed to it doesn't "approve of imagination." Yet, we have learned from her main characters that Rowling  believes it is okay to inflict horrible suffering on others, disobey authorities, and LIE if it helps "the cause"! Therefore, discerning,

Christian fundamentalists will take her statements "cum grano salis" (i.e. with a grain of salt!).

 

HARRY POTTER TEACHES THAT "MODERATE" DRINKING IS OKAY

"He couldn't know that at this very moment, people meeting in secret all over the country were holding up their glasses..." (p. 17)

 

"Everyone [in the bar] seemed to know Hagrid; they waved and smiled at him, and the bartender reached for a glass, saying, 'The usual, Hagrid?' 'Can't Tom, I'm on Hogwarts business,' said Hagrid." (p.68, 69) 

 

[Hagrid later renounces his drinking for giving away an important secret while drunk - yet, with all the references in the book, we are forced to believe it is because he "abuses" it.]

 

"Harry watched Hagrid getting redder and redder in the face as he called for more wine, finally kissing professor McGonald on the cheek, who, to Harry's amazement, giggled and blushed, her top hat lopsided. When Harry finally left the table..." (p.204)

 

There is no place where Mrs. McGonald renounces wine; children are left to believe that it is perfectly acceptable for fermented wine to be served at the table of a school of 11-year-old children! They are also left to believe that it is acceptable for a schoolteacher to get tipsy and "loose". But Holy Scripture teaches children not to so much as LOOK at fermented wine (Pr. 23:31).





David A. Brown
Basic Christian: Forum
 
From:  David (DavidABrown)    10/18/2001 8:39 am  
To:  The Rebecca Review.com (A281NPSIMI1C)    
 
    
 

 

HARRY POTTER TEACHES CHILDREN THAT THERE IS GOOD WITCHCRAFT

"Dumbledore is particularly famous for his defeat of the dark wizard Grindlewald in 1945..." (p.219)

"See, there was this wizard who went...bad." (p.54)

But Scripture condemns ALL witchcraft as EVIL:

 

Galatians 5:19-21  Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these;

Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, idolatry, WITCHCRAFT, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

 

I have already quoted the little Episcopalian girl who summed up the impression most children will receive from reading Harry Potter: "Yes there is witchcraft, but it is mostly good witchcraft..." This is the very teaching that true witchcraft (as an official religion) wishes to convey to people. They will be temporarily successful. The Bible predicts that the whole world will be filled with sorcerers when this present generation begins to grow older:

 

Revelation 9:21 Neither repented they of their murders, nor of their SORCERIES, nor of their fornication, nor of their thefts.

 

Part II

HARRY POTTER REFERS TO REAL WITCHES AND REAL WITCHCRAFT IN THE MIDST OF ITS FICTION

 

Perhaps those who still use the "It's just fantasy" excuse will be convinced with what follows. Just as some modern kids collect cards with sports players, the witch kids in the book collect cards with pictures of famous witches and wizards. Is this just innocent fiction? That depends. Is witchcraft a REAL religion out there? Are there web sites that present witchcraft as a real alternative to Christianity? If so, then the

Harry Potter books must be seen as Wiccan propaganda. The witches are not presented as evil creatures (as in fairy tales). The witches are the HEROES of the book. When a child in earlier days read about Daniel Boone, he wanted to go explore the woods and fight with a dangerous bear.

Certainly such books had their own dangers. But there were no widespread Daniel Boone cults that presented themselves as an alternative to Christianity. When "Evel Knieval" was the big craze, all the young boys in America began jumping ramps with their bikes, and many indeed broke their legs, if not their necks. When children read Superman comics, they wanted to pretend they were Superman. But there was no cult out there called "the Superman cult" that presented itself as an alternative to Christianity! What will children who read about Harry Potter want to do? They will want to pretend they are witches and wizards. But wait one second: there ARE hundreds of web sites out there that advocate true witchcraft! And they DO present themselves as an alternative to fundamental Christianity.

 

But someone objects by saying that the witches in the Potter books are fictitious. I do not see how this is any objection. But instead of worrying about that, it is important to point out that Rowling presents REAL WITCHES as heroes in the context of fictitious ones!:

 

"Chocolate Frogs have cards inside them, you know, to collect  famous witches and wizards. I've got about five hundred Ron was more interested in eating the frogs than looking at the famous Witches and Wizards cards, but Harry couldn't keep his eyes off them. Soon he had not only Dumbledore and Morgana, but Hengis of Woodcroft, Alberic, Grunnion, Circe, PARACELSUS, and Merlin. He finally tore his eyes away from the druidess Cliodna, who was scratching her nose..." (pp.102, 103)

 

Cliodna was the daughter of a High Druid. Circe was a sorceress in Greek mythology who turned people into swine. Yet, Paracelsus (1493-1541) is a REAL hero of modern day witches and wizards! He was an ALCHEMIST (i.e. sorcerer). Albert Pike (Mason) wrote in his "Morals and Dogma" (1950, 1871):

 

"The Hermetic Art is, therefore, at the same time a religion, a philosophy, and a natural science...we must inquire for its processes of Paracelsus [and] Nicholas Flamel..." (p.774)

 

Pike attempts to take his initiates into the mysteries of TRUE OCCULTISM. He lists two heroes who "held the torch" of this mystery religion in the middle ages. One of these is Paracelsus, who shows up on a trading card as a model hero for Rowling's young readers! So it's all just fantasy? No children will go to their library and explore the life and writings of Paracelsus? But Rowling is not through. Pike also mentions Nicholas Flamel as a Masonic (occult) hero. Rowling therefore actually brings this old sorcerer into her story line!:

 

"Dumbledore is particularly famous for his defeat of the dark wizard Grindlewald in 1945, for the discovery of the twelve uses of dragon's blood, and his work on alchemy with his partner, NICOLAS FLAMEL'! 'Nicolas Flamel,' she whispered dramatically, 'is the only known maker of the Sorcerer's stone!'...She pushed the book toward them, and Harry and Ron read: The ancient study of alchemy is concerned with making the Sorcerer's Stone...the only Stone currently in existence belongs to Mr. Nicolas Flamel, the noted alchemist...Mr. Flamel, who celebrated his six hundred and sixty-fifth birthday last year, enjoys a quiet life..." (pp. 219, 220)

 

This is not exactly fiction! This man was a real sorcerer, showing up in occult works such as "Morals and Dogma." He is truly known as a man who made the Philosopher's Stone (to be explained later). In a work attributed to Flamel, he writes:

 

"I Nicholas Flamel, a scrivener of Paris, in the year 1414, in the reign of our gracious Prince Charles the VIth, whom God preserve; and after the death of my faithful partner PERENELLE, am seized with a desire and a delight, in remembrance of her, and in your behalf, dear nephew, to write out the whole magistery of the secret of the Powder of Projection, or the Philosophical Tincture, which God hath willed to impart to his very insignificant servant, and which I have found out, as thou also wilt find out in working as I shall declare unto you." ("Testament of Nicholas Flamel", London: 1806)

 

Rowling also mentions Flamel's wife in the book:

"'But that means he and his wife will die, won't they?'...Dumbledore smiled at the look of amazement on Harry's face. 'To one as young as you, I'm sure it seems incredible, but to Nicolas and Perenelle, it really is like going to bed after a very, very long day. After all, to the well-organized mind, death is but the next great adventure." (p.297)

 

Occult books and web sites discuss Flamel as the most famous of fourteenth century "adepts". Around 1361 Flamel found an occult book called "The Sacred Book of Abraham the Jew, Priest, Levite, Astrologer and Philosopher to that Tribe of Jews who by the Wrath of God were Dispersed amongst the Gauls." On a trip to Spain in 1382, Flamel supposedly met a Jew who explained the "mysteries" of this text to him. He returned to Paris with the alchemist keys. He did become very wealthy. Occult encyclopedias state that legend teaches that he and his wife faked their deaths and are still living.

 

Flamel is seen by occultists as a hero who knew how to "handle" the secret wisdom without greed and lust. Rowling closes the first Potter book with this lesson. Harry learns from the master wizard that finding the "stone" is not simply about money and immortality. This sounds good to many Christians. They think it is a wonderful moral story. But this is PURE occultism. It is fantasy and fiction only as much as true occultism is fantasy! But the Devil is real. His lies are therefore nothing to play around with.

 

Notice that Rowling states that Flamel was 665 years old LAST YEAR. He later graciously submits to death when the Sorcerer's Stone is destroyed. Therefore, Rowling has presented true occultists with much meat to chew on in the midst of her fiction. She has Flamel die when he is 666 years old! [His death is a little too close to suicide to be harmless for children. Rowling presents death as just the "next great adventure" - p.297]

 

Rowling presents true New Age heroes in other, more subtle ways. The powerful, famous "good" wizard of the story is Dumbledore. His loyal pet is named FAWKES. Guy Fawkes (1570-1606) was the Roman Catholic that is famous for the Gunpowder Plot. On the night of November 4-5, 1605, he was caught in the cellar underneath the House of Lords. He was arrested and hanged for conspiracy to blow up the English Parliament. This was really Satan's attempt to stop the Authorized Version from finding its way into the hands of the common people. To this day, every book on witchcraft, astrology, new age religion, etc. hates that one Book more than any other. The reason is that it is blunt in denouncing astrology, etc. Witches and astrologers find it easier to justify themselves with new versions (according to their own admissions - see "The Four Horsemen" by Elizabeth Clare Prophet, etc.). "Fawkes" becomes a name for a LOYAL pet in Harry Potter. Rowling's point is ominous. Perhaps this is one of many reasons that Catholics love the Harry Potter:

 

"Harry Potter is great, says Catholic group - Harry Potter, the young wizard-in-training whose adventures top best-seller lists but have been denounced by conservative religious groups, has won a vote of approval from the Roman Catholic Opus Dei association...The three books published so far have sold 30 million copies worldwide, and the next book in the series, due in July, is expected to be just as popular. But conservative religious groups in the United States and England have attacked the books for glorifying the occult powers that Harry Potter and his friends are learning to use at a school for wizards. Opus Dei is an association mainly of Catholic laity who take strict vows to promote holiness and exercise a personal apostolate in their daily lives." (May 16, 2000, Seattle Post-Intelligencer News Services)

 

Another fictional book mentioned by Rowling in one of the Potter books is "Unfogging the Future". This was the "divination text" at the Hogwarts school. It is said to be authored by "Cassandra Vablatsky". It is obvious where this name comes from. In "The Magical World of Harry Potter" by David Colbert, Colbert reveals that it stands for "Blavatsky". Colbert writes:

"Rowling stuffs an entire classical education into each of her books..." (BTW)

 

Yes. Too bad it is an education (or better yet "initiation") into true OCCULTISM! Harry Potter's initials are "H.P." These are the same initials of Blavatsky's name as it is normally written. H. P. Blavatsky (1831-1891) was the founder of an occult society and movement called Theosophy. She was a spiritist and founder of the New Age movement. She also "bobbed" hair two generations before any other women dared to do so (1 Cor.11). She was known by her closest associates for lying in order to spread the occult "truth". Therefore, one must realize that true occultists cannot be trusted. What are we to think of Rowling if these types of people are the heroes of her story? These people (such as Blavatsky) are real and dangerous. At the end of the book, the "good" wizard tells Harry that the stone is not really important. Blavatsky (in real life) explains why when she writes: "Man is the philosopher's stone spiritually."

 

Other characters in Rowling's books borrow names from Celtic goddesses, etc. Her books are indeed an "education" in New Age occultism! 





David A. Brown
Basic Christian: Forum
 
From:  David (DavidABrown)    10/18/2001 8:41 am  
To:  The Rebecca Review.com (A281NPSIMI1C)    
 
    
 
HARRY POTTER GLORIFIES SERPENTS AND DRAGONS LIKE TRUE OCCULTISTS

"After lunch they went to the reptile house...Dudley quickly found the largest snake in the place...Harry moved in front of the tank and looked intently at the snake...The snake suddenly opened its beady eyes. Slowly, very slowly, it raised its head until its eyes were on a level with Harry's. It winked...'Where do you come from, anyway' Harry asked." (p.27)

"...I'd like a dragon...Wanted one ever since I was a kid..." (p.65) 

On the front cover of the book (HPSS), serpents are entwined around the two pillars at the entrance of the "HOGWARTS SCHOOL of WITCHCRAFT and WIZARDRY."

 

In the occult religions, serpents are seen as wise. Pike writes: 

"Of Hermes, the Mercury of the Greeks, the Thoth of the Egyptians, and the Taaut of the Phoenicians, we have heretofore spoken sufficiently at length. He was the inventor of letters and Oratory, the winged messenger of the Gods, bearing the Caduceus wreathed with serpents..." ("Morals and Dogma", p. 586)

 

Thus, the Masonic, occult god of secret wisdom carries a wand entwined with serpents. In his index, Pike writes:

"[Serpents are]...an emblem of eternity and immortality...Serpents and Dragons have something divine in their nature" (p.168, Digest)

 

Genesis 3 reveals Satan in the form of a serpent to deceive mankind. The Book of Revelation calls the Devil a Dragon and a Serpent:

 

Revelation 12:9 And the great DRAGON was cast out, that old SERPENT, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

 

The only people that can logically see Harry Potter books as harmless fiction are the same people that believe the DEVIL HIMSELF is only harmless fiction.

 

The password to the school is "the head of the serpent": "'Password?' She said. 'Caput Draconis,' said Percy..." (p.129)

 

HARRY POTTER ENTICES CHILDREN TO STUDY REAL OCCULT BOOKS

Throughout this book, references are made to courses at the school that are REAL subjects of study among true witches. One review on the opening page of the book is truer than it probably realizes:

 

"After reading this entrancing fantasy, readers will be convinced that they, too, could take the train to Hogwarts School..." (School Library Journal)

 

The book lists the course books that Harry and the other wizards will need for school:

 

"First year student will require...Three sets of plain work robes (black)... All students should have a copy of each of the following: 'The Standard Book of Spells' (Grade 1) by Miranda Goshawk, 'A History of Magic' by Bathilda Bagshot, 'Magical Theory' by Adalbert Waffling, 'A Beginners' Guide to Transfiguration' by Emeric Switch, 'One

Thousand Magical Herbs and Fungi' by Phyllida Spore, 'Magical Drafts and Potions' by Arsenius Jigger, 'Fantastic Beasts and Where to Find Them' by Newt Scamander, 'The Dark Forces: A Guide to Self-Protection' by Quentin Trimble." (pp.66, 67)

 

While the authors of these books are not real people, the book names are right out of occult bookstores (and new age sections in popular bookstore chains)! Similar titles can now be found in school libraries across the world. Notice the true titles of some random occult books that any 12 year old can find, purchase, or check out with ease:

 

"Basic Magic Spells"

"A History of Witchcraft: Sorcerers, Heretics and Pagans"

"The Complete Book of Incense, Oils & Brews"

"Book of Spells"

"True Magick: A Beginner's Guide"

"The Complete Book of Spells, Ceremonies and Magic"

 

Therefore, how can people say this is all "harmless" fantasy when these REAL books are readily available to children? Rowling makes sure she comforts the children who are mostly unfamiliar with true witchcraft: "There's loads of people who come from Muggle families and they learn quickly enough." (p.100)

 

The main character, Harry is told to relax. Children will glean that just because their parents are Christians it is no bar to exploring witchcraft!

 

Someone objects by saying that wands and spells are not TRUE witchcraft. Yet these things ARE present in true witchcraft! Furthermore, Rowling goes far to teach children that witchcraft is serious and much larger than FANTASY:

 

"There was a lot more to magic, as Harry quickly found out, than waving your wand and saying a few funny words. They had to study the night skies through their telescopes...Three times a week they went out to the greenhouses behind the castle to study Herbology..." (p.133)

 

"As there is little foolish wand-waving here, many of you will hardly believe this is magic. I don't expect you will really understand the beauty of the softly simmering cauldron..." (p.137)





David A. Brown
Basic Christian: Forum
 
From:  David (DavidABrown)    10/18/2001 8:42 am  
To:  The Rebecca Review.com (A281NPSIMI1C)    
 
    
 
HARRY POTTER HAS HELPED MAINSTREAM THE OCCULT REVIVAL

A true, practicing witch writes:

"Thanks in part to the popularity of the Harry Potter books and to television shows such as 'Charmed' and 'Sabrina, The Teenage Witch'; everyone in America knows what a spell is." (Wren Walker, "Hidden hatred Haunts Pagans" from "The Witches Voice". March 12, 2000)

 

Another real witch writes: "Alas, these days it seems like there are far more earnestly curious teens than there are old witches in cottages...In the past ten years, I have been witnessing a rise in structured "Wicca 101" classes at alternative schools and through magick shops all over my region. While a one-on-one relationship is ideal, there simply aren't enough heroic Wiccan  pioneers out there willing or qualified to do it. That's why I believe having a Sunday School for Witches type of thing might be the best way for us to teach our curious teens about our religion. Now that I am older, my fantasy about the witch in the cottage has changed to a fantasy about a college for Witches. I dream of being able to afford an old convent in the woods somewhere that I could use to set up my UOW (University of Wicca). There would be dorms and scholarships and varying degrees bestowed on its students. There would be all levels of study, from basic to very deep. I have even written curriculum, course schedules, and a list of my ideal professors from all over the world. My fantasy is a utopia of metaphysical and historical education more varied and in depth than anyone would get from one teacher. I've had this fantasy since before the Harry Potter books came out, so you can imagine my delight when I read of "Hogwarts School of Witchcraft and Wizardry" which is basically an over-the-top, whimsical fiction of my dream. Imagination is the first step to actualisation, so it thrills me that children are reading these books. Someday, perhaps there'll be a "Henbane's School of Witchcraft and Magick." (Henbane, a California witch, Witchvox.com)

 

Notice that she says that "imagination is the first step to actualization" and that she is "thrilled" that children are reading these books! She is saddened that there are not enough trained witches to handle the interest!

 

This new interest among children is relatively recent. Linda P. Harvey in

"Heresy in the Hood" writes:"'Witchcraft is the fastest-growing religion in America today,' said a proponent recently on the teen-popular 'E'-cable channel, and interest is high among adolescent girls, since wiccans are 'strong, self-directed women.' The fascination with witchcraft among the young is a new twist. As recently as 1993, Cynthia Eller noted in her admiring book on feminist spirituality (witchcraft), '...how few women [in feminist spirituality] there are below thirty....There are women in their teens and twenties, but not many.' That has changed...there are the top-selling Harry Potter books by J.K Rowling, which adults as well as kids are gobbling up...Harry Potter and the Sorcerer's Stone is not simply a children's book, but number 2 in sales at amazon.com. So, teens come to the throne of adolescent self-indulgence and rebellion ready to pick up the sorcerer's wand to satisfy morbid curiosity and possibly wave away their troubles."

 

The following news report does not deal specifically with Harry Potter, but it does show that books such as Harry Potter are part of a very SERIOUS revival of occultism:

 

"Wicca Casts Spell on Teen-Age Girls - In their universal quest for self-actualisation, a devilish number of teen-age girls have become enchanted by the female-friendly but retrograde culture of Witchcraft. 'Teen Witch: Wicca for a New Generation', a recent book by Silver Ravenwolf, has sold more copies for occult publisher Llewellyn than any other in its 95-year history, according to publicist Jamie Schumacher. And it's not just media hype, either. Danny Aguirre runs a Christian hot line at the Berkeley, Calif.-based Spiritual Counterfeits Project. He says, 'In the last six months, I have received more inquiries about Wicca than any other religion in the 10 years I have worked here.' The demographics of the callers? 'All teen-age girls,' says  Aguirre...Demographics of Wiccans in the United States are difficult to find. There is much to-do about secrecy, and groups do not release membership rolls...According to Goddess Unmasked author Davis, 'The problem is that this younger generation has grown up with magic and the occult. Their cartoons feature ghosts and monsters, they have the Internet Websites and prime-time TV is Buffy and Sabrina. All this stuff makes Wicca seem natural to them.' Not surprisingly, the teen magazines have jumped on the Wiccan bandwagon as well. A recent issue of Young and Modern magazine features two pages on Witchcraft with the banner headline, 'Witchy Ways!'..."(Catherine Edwards, Insight Magazine)

 

A recent report in WND reads:

"Potter books: Wicked witchcraft? New documentary claims tales lead kids to the occult - ...an occult expert has released a documentary video claiming the Harry Potter phenomenon is incompatibility with Christianity...with the first of several feature-film adaptations of the children's story set to open on Nov. 16, Harry Potter fever has started heating up again...critics object to the use of witchcraft and wizardry in fighting evil, not to mention the book's graphic depictions of evil. Even the good wizards in Harry's world cause eyebrows to be raised in many circles... 'Through Harry Potter books and audios, children as young as kindergarten age are being introduced to human sacrifice, the sucking of blood from dead animals and possession by spirit beings,' the video states...Many parents, regardless of their faith, may not wish to have their children read about evil non-physical beings who drink the blood of animals to gain power. But the books are marketed to children ages 9-12. For Christians in particular, the acclamation given Harry Potter's world is seen as unbiblical...The video documentary details numerous similarities between the spells and magic used by Harry Potter and those used in the witchcraft of the Wiccan religion. Such striking similarity, said Matrisciana, is evidence that the author has meticulously researched Wicca and included its tenets in her children's books. 'My

greatest concern is that godly fear that protects mankind from dabbling in the spirit world is being taken away from children who read these Harry Potter books. The terrors and horrors of black magic and occult practice, rituals, ceremonies and demon possession are being normalized,' she said. 'Alarmingly, the Potter books are engaging in pagan discipleship, disciplining our children to spiritual alternatives and also turning them away from the biblical principles and God's protection.' The books' publisher, Scholastic, encourages teachers to read the books aloud in class and provides discussion guides for teachers and parents... Matrisciana thinks introduction of the Harry Potter books into the classroom as a springboard for curriculum is unacceptable..."(Julie Foster, 2001, WND)

 

Perhaps the next news reports will wake up some Christians:

"On 27 April Scotland Yard announced that it would use the services of a professional magician to train chief superintendents in the skills of communication and networking...Outside the workplace, the Harry Potter series of adult-read children's books has helped fuel a revival of British interest in the occult. The British Satanist Aleister Crowley and his growing band of disciples were recently featured in a television documentary on witchcraft as a kind of lifestyle choice. But inside the workplace, too, the acquisition of magical powers is now taken seriously..." (May 9, 2001, James Woudhuysen, Spiked-Online)

 

"Teenage witches: Bell, books and candle -Three hundred years ago, witches were hanged or burned at the stake. Today, witchcraft is celebrated as a hot teen trend in movies and television shows such as 'The Craft,' 'Charmed' and 'Sabrina, the Teenage Witch.' Now, book publishers are hoping to cash in on this fascination, fanned by the record sales of the series featuring a boy wizard named Harry Potter. In recent months, four publishers have launched new paperback fiction series centered on teenage girls' involvement in witchcraft. Three series are written for teenagers: the 'Sweep' series by Cate Tiernan, published by Penguin Putnam; 'Circle of Three' by Isobel Bird, published by Avon; and 'Daughters of the Moon' by Lynne Ewing, published by Volo, an imprint of Hyperion Publishers. The fourth series, called 'T*witches,' is written by H.B. Gilmour and Randi Reisfeld and is aimed at preteens. 'T*witches' is published by Scholastic, regarded as the key player in series books, given its success with 'Goosebumps,' 'The Baby-sitters Club,' 'Animorphs,' 'Dear America' and, of course, 'Harry Potter.'...Scholastic publisher and editor in chief Jean Feiwel said the new series have merely tapped into an increased teen interest in witches. 'It's almost gotten - dare I say it - acceptable,' Feiwel said. There's no doubt that fantasy and wizards have become more popular because of Harry Potter. Practicing witches are amused by this trend in teen books. 'It's nice to see that we are not always the bad guys anymore,' laughed Wren Walker, co-founder of 'The Witches Voice,' an umbrella Web site for witchcraft groups..." (Pittsburgh Post-Gazette,  August 08, 2001)





David A. Brown
Basic Christian: Forum
 
From:  David (DavidABrown)    10/18/2001 8:49 am  
To:  The Rebecca Review.com (A281NPSIMI1C)   (80 of 156)  
 
  37.80 in reply to 37.72  
 
 

 

Rebecca,

Thank you again for your posting of the Excellent and very Informative article on the Occult origins of the Harry Potter Books.

 

The complete Article is Posted as an Attachment on Post #72

It is a long and informative article.

 

I have reposted it as several postings Posts #s 73-79.

 

Thanks Again,

God Bless You,

David

 

 





David A. Brown
Basic Christian: Forum
 
  
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From:  David (DavidABrown)    10/18/2001 9:16 am  
To:  The Rebecca Review.com (A281NPSIMI1C)   (81 of 156)  
 
  37.81 in reply to 37.72  
 
  

Rebecca,

Thank you again for your posting of the Excellent and very Informative article on the Occult origins of the Harry Potter Books.

 

The complete Article is Posted as an Attachment on Post #72

It is a long and informative article.

 

I have reposted it as several postings Posts #s 73-79.

 

Thanks Again,

God Bless You,

David

 

 





David A. Brown
Basic Christian: Forum





David A. Brown
Basic Christian: Forum
 
  
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  From:  The Rebecca Review.com (A281NPSIMI1C)   10/18/2001 5:03 pm  
To:  David (DavidABrown)    (82 of 156)  
 
  37.82 in reply to 37.81  
 
So, not everyone can view attachments? I thought it would be easier to print off, but thanx for taking the time and effort to post it for everyone. The article is the best I have seen so far. I think there are a few things I would not take as seriously, but maybe someone will comment on the article. 
You are pretty up on things arn't you. ;) It is nice to see there is someone online interested in this stuff. 

R. 
 
  
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  From:  David (DavidABrown)    10/18/2001 5:10 pm  
To:  The Rebecca Review.com (A281NPSIMI1C)   (83 of 156)  
 
  37.83 in reply to 37.82  
 
Hi,

I think everyone on-line can view attachments. The file turned out to be so big I didnt realize it was still loading.

 

This way people get the best of both. They have the full document in the attachment and the smaller portions in the postings.

 

Again Thanks, I enjoy all of your postings!

 

God Bless You,

David





David A. Brown
Basic Christian: Forum
 
  
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  From:  Marxach   10/28/2001 7:37 am  
To:  David (DavidABrown)    (84 of 156)  
 
  37.84 in reply to 37.83  
 
Hmm...I can see where the Harry potter would be called Asatanic, but how would Pokemon me called Satanic? I don't see how it is, its just a show about little creatures that kids play with, right? 
  
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  From:  Time-chan (CATWHO)   10/29/2001 4:18 pm  
To:  Marxach unread  (85 of 156)  
 
  37.85 in reply to 37.84  
 
This goes deep into Japanes culture, so forgive me if I ramble. 
Pokmon is short for Pocket Monsters. Monsters and demons are a common theme in Japanese animation (in all their various forms -- youkai and taiyokai are humanoid demons, mononoke are vengeful spirits, oni are ogres, and there are a dozen other variations on names.) While the Pokmon are cuter than most of them, the fact remains that they *are* Japanese demons. 

However, the Japanese also believe that a demon can be sealed or even redeemed entirely by the power of God (or Buddha as the case may be). 




Under the Dog Star
Chapter 13 Now Out!


www.catwho.net and www.airdragon.net 
Current obsessions: Inu-Yasha and Fruits Basket
Come visit the new Inu-Yasha Forum!
 
  
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  From:  Fenian_Mor   11/1/2001 9:17 pm  
To:  Time-chan (CATWHO)   (86 of 156)  
 
  37.86 in reply to 37.85  
 
So sorry, I dabble in Japanese culture and am very familiar with the Pokemon Phenonemon 
Since these characters are FICTION, they cannot remain demons. While I see similarities with various demons or monsters in there culture, I don't think that they are "fetishes" or whatever the fundamentalists call them. My question is this: How is pokemon considered demonic in the Western Christian sense, rather than making it a xenophobic terror? How can it be attacked logically for being occultistic? Other than the "Psychic" and "Spirit" and possibly the "Evil" type pokemon, I don't think that the show is very occultistic, especially since Psychic pokemon are especially feared in the show, and "Evil" pokemon have been seen as nothing but villans. 

Oachdani~ 

Fenian Mor 

 
  
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  From:  Time-chan (CATWHO)   11/1/2001 11:24 pm  
To:  Fenian_Mor unread  (87 of 156)  
 
  37.87 in reply to 37.86  
 
I dabble in Japanese culture and more than dabble in Japanese anime. I never said that Pokmon was occultist. I simply pointed out that they are demons by any definition of the word, and that's why they are labeled as bad by Fundamentalists. 
Pokmon's demons are tame by anime standards, though. Now, the demons in Inu-Yasha . . . heh, Naraku metaphorically eats (probably would literarally if they existed in the same universe) Pokmon for breakfast. 


Under the Dog Star
Chapter 13 Now Out!


www.catwho.net and www.airdragon.net 
Current obsessions: Inu-Yasha and Fruits Basket
Come visit the new Inu-Yasha Forum!
 
  
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  From:  Pichu (ppiichuu)   11/6/2001 12:32 am  
To:  ALL   (90 of 156)  
 
  37.90 in reply to 37.1  
 
The title of this thread has nothing to do with PKMN. What's wrong with it?

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 Pichu! 
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  From:  Pichu (ppiichuu)   11/6/2001 12:35 am  
To:  Time-chan (CATWHO)   (91 of 156)  
 
  37.91 in reply to 37.87  
 
Pokmon is just created with the inception of child minds. No, I don't think there are any "demons" presented in the plays and anime of PKMN. Your concept is just wrong.

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acx ff gz js lab mpc mpu mw3 npcf pcph pu pvc ps prpg pw tff tlw ts  
 Pichu! 
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  From:  Time-chan (CATWHO)   11/6/2001 7:57 am  
To:  Pichu (ppiichuu)   (92 of 156)  
 
  37.92 in reply to 37.91  
 
Pichu! What're you doing here? Got here by a wrong search thread as well? 

Under the Dog Star
Chapter 13 Now Out!


www.catwho.net and www.airdragon.net 
Current obsessions: Inu-Yasha and Fruits Basket
Come visit the new Inu-Yasha Forum!
 
  
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  From:  David (DavidABrown)    11/6/2001 8:07 am  
To:  Time-chan (CATWHO)   (93 of 156)  
 
  37.93 in reply to 37.92  
 
I doubt that it is a mistake an accident or a coincidence that you followed a link to this forum.

 

I think Jesus is calling your name!

 

Im sure there are Many Conformations in your life that Jesus is Real and that He Lives! and is available to us.

 

I hope that you do answer the Spirits call into a relationship with Jesus.



David A. Brown
Basic Christian: Forum
 
  
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  From:  Pichu (ppiichuu)   11/6/2001 6:07 pm  
To:  Time-chan (CATWHO)   (94 of 156)  
 
  37.94 in reply to 37.92  
 
actually, this forum came up to me a while ago and I don't recall how I got in, perhaps from the chatroom or from some threads or even searches like you... How did we ever meet here? ^_^

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  From:  Kiwimac   11/9/2001 10:48 pm  
To:  ALL   (95 of 156)  
 
  37.95 in reply to 37.84  
 
What a crock of dung! 
The Harry Potter books have no more relationship with "real" witchcraft and satanism than fundamentalism has with real christianity. 

Get a life! 

Kiwimac
 
  
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  From:  bernie@nationwide.net (A20EEWWSFMZ1)    11/14/2001 8:40 am  
To:  Kiwimac   (96 of 156)  
 
  37.96 in reply to 37.95  
 
What an attitude!

Actually I wish I could put it so succinctly.
 
  
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  From:  wilthaw   11/14/2001 11:47 am  
To:  Kiwimac   (97 of 156)  
 
  37.97 in reply to 37.95  
 
I agree these people, especially that David character, is obviously insane. 
I only hope that someone close to him will have him committed, so that he can get better. 

-
Eternal Life is Possible! 
  
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  From:  David (DavidABrown)    11/14/2001 11:53 am  
To:  wilthaw unread  (98 of 156)  
 
  37.98 in reply to 37.97  
 
After visiting your link I dont think Im the one whos sanity is in question.

 



David A. Brown
Basic Christian: Forum
 
  
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  From:  Kiwimac   11/14/2001 4:54 pm  
To:  wilthaw unread  (99 of 156)  
 
  37.99 in reply to 37.97  
 
Friend, 
It's not a question of sanity. The problem is some groups of Christians focus on this sort of thing, forgetting that (if they ever knew) we are not supposed to be concerned about this. Our function is to mirror the joy of the already-breaking-through kingdom of God. 

It is very hard for others to see you as joyful, if everytime something comes along your first reaction is that its satanic!, As Christians our job is to focus on christ not satan! 

Kiwimac 



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Edited 11/14/01 8:00:49 PM ET by KIWIMAC 
  
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Message 100 of 156 was Deleted    
Messages 101 through 108 of 156 were Deleted    



  From:  39_lashes   11/15/2001 7:36 pm  
To:  David (DavidABrown)    (109 of 156)  
 
  37.109 in reply to 37.98  
 
Circumnavigation 
Flight 
Space Exploration 
Automobile 
Train 
Indoor Plumbing 
Telephone 
Computers 
Internet 
Printing Press 
Light Bulb and electricity 
Antibiotics and vaccines. 
All common day objects. Some in which we can't live without. All thought at one time to be impossible and scoffed at.
 
  
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  From:  David (DavidABrown)    11/15/2001 7:41 pm  
To:  39_lashes   (110 of 156)  
 
  37.110 in reply to 37.109  
 
Hi,

 

Witchcraft is not thought to be impossible and it is not scoffed at.

 

In fact it is condemned by God and Christians are not to participate in any type of it.

 

 



David A. Brown
Basic Christian: Forum
 
  
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  From:  39_lashes   11/15/2001 8:13 pm  
To:  David (DavidABrown)    (111 of 156)  
 
  37.111 in reply to 37.110  
 
No. You scoff at the idea of life immortal. What is wrong with life immortal? We just live longer in order to love our god more, as he wishes for us to. 
  
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Messages 112 through 115 of 156 were Deleted    



  From:  Silki3   11/26/2001 11:13 am  
To:  David (DavidABrown)    (116 of 156)  
 
  37.116 in reply to 37.110  
 
Hi, I'm new to this forum. I just have 1 question...(for now). Forgive me if you think it is rude (that is not my intention), but why so many message deletions? Many of the discussions here seem very interesting, then deletions of several posts. I don't understand that. 
  
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  From:  David (DavidABrown)    11/26/2001 4:35 pm  
To:  Silki3   (117 of 156)  
 
  37.117 in reply to 37.116  
 
Hi,

 

It is just that sometimes people are being rude to other posters.

 

Due to the very sensitive nature of many of these debates/discussions Im trying not to let them end in shouting matches And I dont want people to come here and get insulted.

 

Points can and should easily be made w/o name calling but thats what most of the deletes are. Nothing mysteries just something Rude.

 

Hope that was helpful,

David

 

 



David A. Brown
Basic Christian: Forum
 
  
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  From:  Silki3   11/26/2001 5:54 pm  
To:  David (DavidABrown)    (118 of 156)  
 
  37.118 in reply to 37.117  
 
Thanks for the reply. Thats nice that you care for your members...I've seen forums that don't. God bless :) 
  
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  From:  Alexander G. Thwarpton (GOD_IS_KING)   12/17/2001 7:52 pm  
To:  David (DavidABrown)    (119 of 156)  
 
  37.119 in reply to 37.117  
 
Here's another helpful tip, especially concerning the terrifying nature of Pokemon. I have seen its grotesque and evil magic over susseptable children, and I believe that this is a prime text for it: 
You cannot read the available information and data about the Pokemon phenomena without having an immediate reaction. The entire method and purpose of the game is to induce the possession of the player by devils. It is sorcery, clear and simple. The ultimate results of these games are as follows: 

- Children and youth learn how to play with devils, which the Bible identifies as fallen angels. 

- Children and youth are being taught that they can make devils subject to them. 

- They are taught that devils are their servants and that the devils will fight for them against their enemies. 

- They learn that these devils (pocket monsters) can evolve into more powerful devils. 

- They learn that these devils have psychic powers that appear to be supernatural. (Psychic is Satans imitation for supernatural in the Bible.) 

- The children are challenged to become masters by conquering more and more monsters and the powers that operate in these creatures. 

Lets first try to understand the world where Satan and his devils operate. A game like Pokemon would not even exist if there were not something real about the whole subject of Satan and his psychic powers. When someone suggests that it is just a game, fun, or entertainment; only very nave people believe them. There is no real fun in make believe unless there is some sense or form of reality behind the scene. Kids that play cowboys and Indians do so because of the history behind the idea. I cannot imagine any idea for fun or game that has no basis in facts. The fun is in trying to live out or experience some historic past or some future dream. 

Lucifer & Fallen Angels 

A fallen angel named Lucifer rules the world of evil. He is only a fallen angel and every devil in our universe is a fallen angel that rebelled against God along with Lucifer. Yes, they are extremely evil, they have great paranormal powers and they go about as roaring lions seeking whom they may devour (I Peter 5:8). But they are already defeated and have very limited powers, except when they possess evil people and can use their personalities and powers to affect other people. This is the strategy behind the game of Pokemon, most other role-playing type games, many toys, comic books, and television cartoons, etc. Satan and his devils need people to use and, as possible, possess them. Then, they can multiply the dark works of wickedness. Our world is witnessing an absolute bombardment of these kinds of influences. 

There are only two kinds of powers in our world. The God of the Holy Bible is sovereign in the righteous world of Christianity. One reason we can know that Bible-believing Christianity is the only real religion is that all the other religions have similar ideas, doctrines, and powers in harmony with the world of Lucifer and his devils. The Hindus have the same black spots on their forehead that you will find in occultic toys and games. The vocabulary of occultic ideas is interchangeable with the vocabulary of pagan religions. Psychic powers, reincarnation, mind control, astral travel or teleporting, casting spells, multiple gods, magic, evolution, karate, mesmerization, hypnosis, crystals, magnetic stones, and transcendental meditation, just to name a few, are found in Pokemon. The only supreme power in this world is the power of Almighty God Jehovah. 

The only other source of paranormal powers is Lucifer and his devils. There is absolutely no exception. If you encounter or play games with any description of paranormal powers, you are clearly having fellowship with devils. Any unbiblical vision or revelation that is connected to sudden displays of light or great energy is evil and suggests that a devil is looking for someone to use or possess. Satan or devils cannot enter into you against your will unless he has subtly deceived you into thinking that he represents something beautiful or spiritual. Many people have given themselves to strange powers because they were deceived into believing it was Jesus Christ or some other godlike being. We must learn that there are no other sources of the supernatural but God Himself and His angels and Satan and his devils. 

The Powers Of Satanic Possession 
When the devil possesses a person, that person under satanic powers can become extremely powerful. The Bible records a single man that wounded and stripped seven men, because he was possessed by one devil. Lets read that story. Then certain of the vagabond Jews, exorcists, took upon them to call over them which had evil spirits the name of the Lord Jesus, saying, We adjure you by Jesus whom Paul preacheth. And there were seven sons of one Sceva, a Jew, and chief of the priests, which did so. And the evil spirit answered and said, Jesus I know, and Paul I know; but who are ye? And the man in whom the evil spirit was leaped on them, and overcame them, and prevailed against them, so that they fled out of that house naked and wounded. And this was known to all the Jews and Greeks also dwelling at Ephesus; and fear fell on them all, and the name of the Lord Jesus was magnified. And many that believed came, and confessed, and shewed their deeds. (Acts 19:13-18). 

Can you imagine the powers that may be manifest when several devils possess one man or woman? Jesus cast a whole multitude of devils out of the demoniac of Gadara. And when he was come out of the ship, immediately there met him out of the tombs a man with an unclean spirit, Who had his dwelling among the tombs; and no man could bind him, no, not with chains: Because that he had been often bound with fetters and chains, and the chains had been plucked asunder by him, and the fetters broken in pieces: neither could any man tame him. And always, night and day, he was in the mountains, and in the tombs, crying, and cutting himself with stones. And forthwith Jesus gave them leave. And the unclean spirits went out, and entered into the swine: and the herd ran violently down a steep place into the sea, (they were about two thousand;) and were choked in the sea. (Mark 5:2-5, 13). It is a must that this generation learn to discern the devastating powers of demon-possessed people. Only a Godly person, full of the Holy Ghost, can even begin to deal with these devil-possessed individuals. 

Pokemon Is A Threat To Our Society 
Now, lets document why Pokemon and other occultic ideas are a threat to our society and world. These kids, youth, and adults are not just playing games. They are having fellowship with devils. It is deadly serious and there will be a multitude of lives totally ruined. When I read where individuals state that they are Christians, but still love to play these games, I know immediately that this cannot possibly be true. Individuals can be religious and do anything without any consciousness, but if the person actually has experienced the cleansing blood of Jesus Christ, then a spiritual conflict would occur instantly. Ye cannot drink the cup of the Lord, and the cup of devils: ye cannot be partakers of the Lord's ...[Message truncated] 
 
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   From:  David (DavidABrown)    12/17/2001 9:26 pm  
To:  Alexander G. Thwarpton (GOD_IS_KING)   (120 of 156)  
 
  37.120 in reply to 37.119  
 
Hi God_is_King,

 

Thank you for the Magnificent, informative and in depth posting.

 

All of your posts have been a joy to read.

 

And thank you for the link Ill repost it in this post incase others didnt get to it.

 

I look forward to any more material and links you have and I look forward to some more Christian fellowship.

 

Link www.crossroad.to./

 

God Bless You,

David

 



David A. Brown
Basic Christian: Forum
 
  
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From:  karen (karen10051)   12/18/2001 7:16 am  
To:  Alexander G. Thwarpton (GOD_IS_KING)   (121 of 156)  
 
  37.121 in reply to 37.119  
 
I am just a simple woman, so perhaps you could explain simply...all toys are evil, television is evil, video games are evil, music is evil, school is evil, people out there are evil... 
How do you raise your children? Do you let them out of the house? Do they have toys? Friends? 

Please, explain in concrete terms. 

karen

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  From:  Alexander G. Thwarpton (GOD_IS_KING)   12/18/2001 8:50 pm  
To:  karen (karen10051)   (122 of 156)  
 
  37.122 in reply to 37.121  
 
Hi Karen, 
I love my kids, and I do everything I can to keep them and save them from occultic influence. As you can see by Joseph Campell's article, pokemon is heavily influenced by satanic buhddist dharmic mysticism. It even has references from the Tibetan Book of the Dead! Of COURSE its all evil! Also, I do keep a close watch on their activities, but I let them leave the house. I am a good parent, I want to meet my kids in heaven and I don't want Satanic forces in their lives! 

God Bless
 
  
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  From:  karen (karen10051)   12/19/2001 4:07 am  
To:  Alexander G. Thwarpton (GOD_IS_KING)   (123 of 156)  
 
  37.123 in reply to 37.122  
 
*smiles* thank you for your response, but your post went far beyond pokemon and touched on absolutely everything...TV, video games, friends, neighbors, toys, everything. So i simply wonder in honesty how you keep your children from absolutely everything you mentioned. 
Your reply did not address this. 
peace, 

karen

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Message 124 of 156 was Deleted    



  From:  karen (karen10051)   12/19/2001 7:01 am  
To:  nbreeze   (125 of 156)  
 
  37.125 in reply to 37.124  
 
Hello Sir, 
I am also striving to understand his position, and perhaps you might help me...i am having difficulty understanding how you keep a child from everything not specifically Christian...even my Betty Crocker cookbook is not specifically Christian. 

karen

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Message 126 of 156 was Deleted    



  From:  karen (karen10051)   12/19/2001 12:15 pm  
To:  nbreeze   (127 of 156)  
 
  37.127 in reply to 37.126  
 
Thank you for your well thought out and intelligent reply. So often I read posts full of half-truths, and alot of inflammatory language and they dont make sense to me. 
I also feel that you cannot wrap your children in cotton batting...that part of making good choices is understanding that there are bad choices. 

My son wishes to see the Harry Potter movie...he is 6. I plan to view it myself first, and decide if I feel it is appropriate. 

Thank you again for your wisdom. 

Karen

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  From:  David (DavidABrown)    12/19/2001 1:43 pm  
To:  nbreeze   (128 of 156)  
 
  37.128 in reply to 37.126  
 
Hi Nbreeze,

 

Nice Post!

 

Maybe you can add another post and talk about how you see the Parents Protection of the Child as a generational event.

 

For Instance the 1st generation Christian is the person who grew up in basically a non-Christian enviroment. This person might have participated in Halloween, gone to public schools, listened to secular music, watched secular TV, and movies, went to clubs, smoked, drank and did whatever. This person who came out of a life of Sin by accepting Jesus, does know what Sin is and also knows the misery and consiquinces of it and also they know who Jesus is and have experiences Devine Spiritual Encounters with God.

 

Now the person has children and this is the second generation. The Parents in all good intentions are not about to let their children become a part of anything that is on the list that they have come out of and consider to be sin. This in theory can lead to a sheltered Christianity and in some cases the person does not really have the knowledge of God or a knowledge of sin and therefore have a more separated life from God than the parent.

 

Then the second generation has children and since they did not have to make or take a stand for God they pass along to their children no firm beliefs. This third generation raises their children in basically a secular non-Christian enviroment and these forth generation children make for themselves the new determination to follow Jesus like the first generation and this starts the process all over again.

 

I think it is important that Every Generation has a relationship with God like they are the first and only generation to know God. It seems that God has made this point in the Bible as God does not acknowlege generations in separation from Himself. God does not have grandchildren, God only has the first generation of Sons and Daughters.

 

Looking forward to your thoughts in this area.

 

God Bless You,

David



David A. Brown
Basic Christian: Forum
 
  
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Message 129 of 156 was Deleted    



  From:  Alexander G. Thwarpton (GOD_IS_KING)   12/19/2001 5:22 pm  
To:  nbreeze   (130 of 156)  
 
  37.130 in reply to 37.124  
 
Now, Chess is a game that my children play and I enjoy with them. I encourage them to think with tools such as the Bible, and my son and I like to discuss physics together. I know that there is a lot out there that is particularly Satanic, but I try to sheild my children from evil influences such as I've mentioned. Plato is in Hell. I don't see how he could help my kids at all, so if I somehow found my daughter reading Plato's Symposium, a pornographic work discussing the "virues" of polygamy and one-night stands, I would dispose of it and remind her that the evils of the ancient world are behind us. All we have is the present. Without using negative energy to prop open a wormhole or use warp drive, and since I don't see a pair of Cosmic Superstrings or Black Holes, we can't relive the past. Plus, who would want to go back to a time when Evil ruled with an iron fist! Also, in pokemon, if God meant kids to be in control, why do their parents sire them? Ruling an empire of satanic monsters is not the promise that God has given them, it is the product of Japenese subliminal attaempts to indoctrinize our young to Eastern Satanic Mysticysm! It just is not right! Also, pagan "religions" based on the "Earth-mother" was melted away by the life-giving flame of Christianity when the Celts brought it to Europe. What happened afterward was only the product of theoretical selection. What did the peopele choose? Their father. Now, America is the most pious nation on the planet, 60% of her people go to church every sunday, where the shower-less europeans are only at an attendance of 11%. My children are raised the American way. Capitalism is no evil, indeed, Reganomics has been a sucess since he took office. Only the Adulturing Clintons have stood in the way of a complete Republican takeover of the Government, and in my Opinion, the GOP will lead us to a former GLORY! 
GOD IS KING!!
 
  
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  From:  Alexander G. Thwarpton (GOD_IS_KING)   12/19/2001 5:24 pm  
To:  karen (karen10051)   (131 of 156)  
 
  37.131 in reply to 37.125  
 
Well, you yourself have proclaimed yourself as "simple", so I guess the answer above will have to suffice. 
  
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Message 132 of 156 was Deleted    



  From:  karen (karen10051)   12/19/2001 7:20 pm  
To:  Alexander G. Thwarpton (GOD_IS_KING)   (133 of 156)  
 
  37.133 in reply to 37.131  
 
Wow. You are a very hate-filled man, and I am deeply sorry for you. I will pray that the Lord opens your eyes. There was absolutely no reason to insult me, however, I will endeavor to forgive you. I asked a sincere question. 
karen 

PS...when i said simple, i meant simple in spirit...actually, I have a Master's Degree in communication disorders...and you, my friend, are pragmatically impaired, in my professional opinion. 




--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Edited 12/19/2001 10:39:45 PM ET by KAREN10051 
  
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  From:  karen (karen10051)   12/19/2001 7:32 pm  
To:  Alexander G. Thwarpton (GOD_IS_KING)   (134 of 156)  
 
  37.134 in reply to 37.130  
 
You know, i thought you were a wise, pious man. But your hate shines through with your words: Japanese people are evil, Europeans are "showerless" (in other words they are dirty), and you are one of them there darned perfect Americans! Gee, unless you are an Indian, SOMEONE in your family was a showerless European way back...You, my friend, are an undereducated bigot...and that is NEVER of God. 
karen

  
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  From:  Alexander G. Thwarpton (GOD_IS_KING)   12/19/2001 7:57 pm  
To:  karen (karen10051)   (135 of 156)  
 
  37.135 in reply to 37.134  
 
No, sorry, I would like to point out that what is past is past. People who do not embrace the Glory of God, they go to hell. That is what God does, and did do to Plato and other people of ancient times. The first people to go to heaven were the first people to believe in God. Everything beforehand is heretic. 
My lineage has nothing to do with it.
 
  
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  From:  Coronus_DA   12/19/2001 8:14 pm  
To:  nbreeze   (136 of 156)  
 
  37.136 in reply to 37.126  
 
A beautiful post. I must say that it rather well exploits the viewpoint of a well-educated and open-minded person. 
  
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  From:  Coronus_DA   12/19/2001 8:20 pm  
To:  Alexander G. Thwarpton (GOD_IS_KING) unread  (137 of 156)  
 
  37.137 in reply to 37.130  
 
Those words are appalling! I am shocked to find someone even more retarded than Russ here! Oh, I mean, more idiotic...Oops! did it again. 
Anyway, I hope you enjoyed that long, detailed article about how everything in your pokemon post is completely wrong. Pokemon is hardly religious, and is only a threat to your children when YOU are doing more damage to your children than pokemon could ever do. 

For my wonderful pokemon site (I am a fan you know) go here. 

 



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Edited 12/19/2001 11:40:23 PM ET by DAVIDABROWN 
  
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  From:  David (DavidABrown)    12/19/2001 8:43 pm  
To:  ALL   (138 of 156)  
 
  37.138 in reply to 37.137  
 
To All,

 

I have to point out that God_is _King is not a member of this form but is a person banned from the forum who Repeatedly takes on other names both Christian sounding and non-Christian sounding names in order to arouse the ire of anyone who is Foolish enough to fall into his little web of deception.

 

BTW God_is_King and Coronus_DA are most likely the same person.

 

Please continue to be Wise, Careful, and Discerning while you are on the internet and also while you are on this forum as not everyone is honest and upright in their postings.

 

God Bless You,

David



David A. Brown
Basic Christian: Forum
 
  
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Message 139 of 156 was Deleted    



   From:  karen (karen10051)   12/20/2001 4:14 am  
To:  Alexander G. Thwarpton (GOD_IS_KING) unread  (140 of 156)  
 
  37.140 in reply to 37.135  
 
You miss my point. Anytime we groundlessly lump people into a nasty little name (ie showerless) we are practicing bigotry. Actually, some Europeans are cleaner than we are!! LOL 
The very fact that you missed my point is quite significant sir. 

karen

  
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From:  David (DavidABrown)    12/20/2001 5:10 am  
To:  nbreeze   (141 of 156)  
 
  37.141 in reply to 37.139  
 
Hi,

 

Thank you for the suggestion.

 

Just for clarification as for the style of this forum no one is ignored or taken lightly by the forum host. I think every post is important and informative in one way or another.

 

Everyone and every posting is taken seriously and it is based on the individuals postings and attitude in posting as to whether or not they have the privilege to remain and Fellowship with additional postings.

 

It is not the intention of this forum for people to come here and play games and insult and otherwise mess to with other posters.

 

Im not saying this is right or wrong, Im just clarifying how me the forum Host handles each posting. The forum guests do have the privilege of ignoring one another.

 

God Bless You,

David



David A. Brown
Basic Christian: Forum
 
  
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  From:  Jim (pentitent)    12/24/2001 5:18 pm  
To:  David (DavidABrown)    (142 of 156)  
 
  37.142 in reply to 37.141  
 
Just my two-cents, but in being a Christian, one must forsake the things unacceptable to God. Harry Potter, Pokemon, Narnia Chronicles, any reading matter that touts magic [witchcraft] is against God. One professing Christianity should in no way allow their children to become a part of any of these. Just as planting the "Seed of Christ" can cause one to come to salvation, planting the "seed of Satan" can bring one to destruction.
May God bless and keep you, my brothers and sisters! 

 
  
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  From:  karen (karen10051)   12/25/2001 9:24 am  
To:  Jim (pentitent)    (143 of 156)  
 
  37.143 in reply to 37.142  
 
So, you also include, Snow White, Cinderella, any fairy tale, any make believe, Barney, absolutely ANYTHING that uses imagination? How sad.... 
karen


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Message 144 of 156 was Deleted    



  From:  Jim (pentitent)    12/25/2001 8:14 pm  
To:  karen (karen10051)   (145 of 156)  
 
  37.145 in reply to 37.143  
 
If that imagination stokes unGodly compromises like magic, such as the witch and the magic poison apple, yes. You cannot straddle the fence and live for Christ and Satan. With one foot on each side, both will end up in tropical climes at Judgement. This is Biblically absolute. We are told to forsake the worldly secular things when we accept Christ. We still have to live here, but we are to live Godly in the process. Everything we do as a Christian is supposed to edify God. How can you edify God sitting in a theater supporting Satan and his tools of soul stealing, watching a Harry Potter movie; or doing the same by buying a Harry Potter book. You don't base your Christian life on what you believe is wrong, but on what God says is wrong. If He says it's wrong, then it's wrong, no matter what context it is presented in. Even if you present it in a seemingly harmless childs movie, it puts a brick in the wall between you and God. Too many times and too many bricks will result in too little righteousness to win the prize we strive for as Christians. It also shows non-Christians that we profess to love God and want to do His will; but blatantly go against it in the process, rationalizing unGodly things so we can enjoy them with the world. One must read and strive to follow what God commands, without letting the outside worlds hype infect us and drag us back into that broad path to destruction.
May God bless and keep you, my brothers and sisters! 

 
  
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  From:  Jim (pentitent)    12/25/2001 8:28 pm  
To:  nbreeze   (146 of 156)  
 
  37.146 in reply to 37.144  
 
If he was indeed a child of God, he wouldn't have been writing secular literature, and glamorizing magic amongst other things. I know "The Lion, the Witch, and the Wardrobe" and "The Silver Chair" from before I was a Christian. Since becoming a Christian and finding out these things he glamorized to make a living are abominations to God, I haven't even thought about reading anymore of his books. Can you think of any justifiable reason for distressing God by delving into subjects a Christian is commanded to avoid? If you wouldn't read a non-Christian secular book with witchcraft in it, they why would you read the same kind of book, just because he claims to be Christian. The Bible specifically said that there will be many who will stand before Him saying they are believers, who will end up burning, for He never knew them. Better to avoid anything that is an abomination to God and saving your soul! If there is reason to believe it might not be acceptable, look in the Word. If you can't find it, ask someone for scripture pertaining to it. But don't ever take someones word about being a Christian, just because they said they were. The only truth is Jesus and The Word. If they don't say he was a Christian, avoid him and his works. Protect yourself.
May God bless and keep you, my brothers and sisters! 

 
  
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  From:  karen (karen10051)   12/26/2001 6:45 am  
To:  Jim (pentitent)    (147 of 156)  
 
  37.147 in reply to 37.145  
 
I mean no offense, but you have no children...and until you do, i personally believe it is really really easy to say "oh, all of that is satanic"...Have you ever watched Barney? Well, by the power of the imagination a dinosaur comes alive and talks. If you stretch everything into evil, eventually ALL imagination will be deemed a lie and "satanic"....every fantasy, every dream, every child's story. How sad. Sometimes we see evil where none is there. 
You sound like a very hard person, and i am sorry for you. A little imagination and pretending is good for the soul. 

karen


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  From:  Jim (pentitent)    12/26/2001 7:02 pm  
To:  karen (karen10051)   (148 of 156)  
 
  37.148 in reply to 37.147  
 
I am a very believing person. God tells me to forsake the things of witchcraft, seeing, fortunetelling, etc., so I do, to please Him. I am not a hard person. I love people. I've given more away to help others than what I now have. Of course the Lord tells me to be and allows me to be content, and still give to those who have not. When I came to the Lord, I promised to do His Word. When you did, you should have done the same. Which means if you are exposing your children to witchcraft and magic, you're failing God and should seek His guidance and start living His entire Word, not just what's convenient! By the way, if you think I'm hard, wait until you go in front of God and find out what He thinks of people who promise to do His Word and don't! I'm even doing His Word now. I'm attempting to inform another Christian where she might be lax in her duties to God. Your first duty as a Child of God is to God. It doesn't matter what unbelievers kids do or watch. It doesn't matter if you think something won't hurt. 
What matters is what God thinks and if you read your Bible, you will find that you are wrong in allowing this. Don't take my word, Read and take His Word.
May God bless and keep you, my brothers and sisters! 

 
  
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  From:  Quinadal (ShadowLove1)   12/31/2001 11:27 pm  
To:  Jim (pentitent)    (149 of 156)  
 
  37.149 in reply to 37.148  
 
I think you're missing the point. Yes, there is magic in the Narnia series, and there are witches, but all of the witches are EVIL and the villains! The only 'magic' the good guys do is based from Aslan, who is supposed to stand for Christ and they even admit that its Aslan's power, not theirs!
 
 
  
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  From:  Jim (pentitent)    1/1/2002 8:03 pm  
To:  Quinadal (ShadowLove1)   (150 of 156)  
 
  37.150 in reply to 37.149  
 
Since the Bible says we are to have nothing to do with it, regardless the situation, this is a moot point! An abomination to God remains such, no matter what light you paint it in!
May God bless and keep you, my brothers and sisters! 

 
  
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  From:  Quinadal (ShadowLove1)   1/1/2002 8:36 pm  
To:  Jim (pentitent)    (151 of 156)  
 
  37.151 in reply to 37.150  
 
It's also not THIS world! 
 
 
  
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  From:  Jim (pentitent)    1/1/2002 8:41 pm  
To:  Quinadal (ShadowLove1)   (152 of 156)  
 
  37.152 in reply to 37.151  
 
There are many that rationalize evil into good. No matter what light...or what world...if it is a part of a Christians life, that Christian is not being obedient to God! Narnia is not this world, but it was written in this world, and you are reading it in this world; while God is watching you, and shedding a tear because of your lack of obedience to avoid witchcraft and all associated with it!
May God bless and keep you, my brothers and sisters! 

 
  
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  From:  Jim (pentitent)    1/2/2002 6:37 pm  
To:  nbreeze   (154 of 156)  
 
  37.154 in reply to 37.153  
 
And that was all right before you came to God, but after! Let's put it this way, so you read material that includes abominations God tells you to avoid even though He commanded you not too! Again, no matter what the situation, fact or fiction, it is still an abomination to God; and you are still being obedient! What's more important, going to live with Jesus for eternity, or having your secular whimsies for the short time we have in this life? Is it worth eternal separation from God! To say what your saying you also justify people going to or calling Psychics! It's just for fun! It's just entertainment! For some reason, I believe God just ain't going to look at it your way! In the end it will be you paying for your mistakes! I believe I'd study on them before I did them!
May God bless and keep you, my brothers and sisters! 

 
  
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   From:  Jim (pentitent)    1/5/2002 12:27 am  
To:  Jim (pentitent)    (156 of 156)  
 
  37.156 in reply to 37.154  
 
Boy 155 must have been a "booger"!
May God bless and keep you, my brothers and sisters! 

 
  
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From:  Jim (pentitent)    1/5/2002 12:27 am  
To:  Jim (pentitent)    (156 of 161)  
 
  37.156 in reply to 37.154  
 
Boy 155 must have been a "booger"!
May God bless and keep you, my brothers and sisters! 

 
  
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  From:  David (DavidABrown)     Jul-15 2:11 pm  
To:  ALL   (157 of 161)  
 
  37.157 in reply to 37.138  
 
Im looking for updates on the new Harry Potter release.

Any links anyone has will be a big help.

God Bless you,
David

 



David A. Brown
Basic Christian: Forum
www.BasicChristian.org

 
  
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  From:  BroMark (DMarcusBrown)    Aug-10 9:49 pm  
To:  David (DavidABrown)    (158 of 161)  
 
  37.158 in reply to 37.157  
 
hi David,

I caught your name over in a Jewish forum, and followed you here.
Interestingly enough, my first name is David and I am a Christian.
All of my legal paperwork reads David M Brown. 
My younger brother has been saved and practicing longer than I. Over forty years. His name is Dwight David Brown and we call him David. 
Enough of that.

You're doing a study on the demonical mechanics of the Potter spell?

                                     BroMark
                                  

                                               
 
  
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  From:  David (DavidABrown)     Aug-13 2:23 pm  
To:  BroMark (DMarcusBrown)    (159 of 161)  
 
  37.159 in reply to 37.158  
 
Hi,

I was posting Harry Potter Info on the news feed

http://www.BasicChristian.us 

Do you have any more info.

Also Disney is coming out with a Narnia Movie this fall that should be interesting although very likely hijacked into witchcraft as well.

Thanks for posting!

All the very best to you.

God Bless you,
David Anson Brown - the other, other David :o)



David A. Brown
Basic Christian: Forum
www.BasicChristian.org

 
  
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   From:  BroMark (DMarcusBrown)    Aug-14 8:17 am  
To:  David (DavidABrown)    (160 of 161)  
 
  37.160 in reply to 37.159  
 
No doubt in my mind about the Narnia Movie.

Did you know that over *50% of the Disney employees in Florida's operation are homosexual? Talk about spiritual transference to our children en masse.

and no, I don't have any more info on Harry Potter.

 

*figures obtained from American Family ( Baptist )

 

                                     BroMark
                                  

                                               
 
  
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Cults -  Harry Potter Pokemon & the Occult (81 views) Subscribe   
   From:  David (DavidABrown)     Aug-15 7:12 am  
To:  BroMark (DMarcusBrown)    (161 of 161)  
 
  37.161 in reply to 37.160  
 
Hi,

It's Disney's 50th anniversery and I seldom go but this year I have gone a couple of times.

I have noticed that Disney's "Main Street" has room for everything but a Church.

Keep up the good work!

God Bless you,
David Anson Brown
 
 
 
